Composers that you disliked, but now like?
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Are there any composers that you disliked at some point, or perhaps were indifferent to, but that you now quite like?
I have a few, but would love to hear some thoughts from you first.
Well, I can start off with one example.
I hated Howard Shore in the 90s. Especially those droney Cronenberg efforts, but also when he nurtured a similar style outside, like SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. But then came LOTR, which was a revelation, then I discovered his lighter side (MRS. DOUBTFIRE, NOBODY’S FOOL, that kind of stuff), and over the years, I slowly began to appreciate some of those Cronenberg things as well, although my favourite of that work remains his dreamy synth score for MAPS TO THE STARS.
So now I quite like him.
Not a specific composer, but I’ve gotten a greater appreciation for golden age film scores in recent years. Probably a reaction to the decreasing number of (good) symphonic scores nowadays.
Also not really a specific composer but originally – decades ago I mean – I always needed a good tune (I still like good themes) and I had to work hard on appreciating more experimental and dissonant scores. Some Alex North scores I really needed to get into but now I like for example DRAGONSLAYER a lot and Goldsmiths PLANET OF THE APES is one of my favorite scores.
For me, I think that it’s less about any change in opinion of specific composers but rather how a composer changes style or the sorts of films they compose for.
Howard Shore and James Horner come to mind. I much prefer Shore’s “droney” Cronenberg efforts over much of his more recent work (with a few exceptions). And Horner’s early style is much more appealing to me than much of his later stuff.
That’s interesting, Alan, because I prefer 90s Horner over the early stuff.
The composer that has had the biggest turnaround for me is, I think, Mark Isham. Another one I severely disliked in the 90s. I found him to be a one-trick pony, always inserting those trumpet and jazz licks in everything, regardless of film genre. And I didn’t like those slow, synth-infused things since I was all about the bombastic and upbeat.
Well, times and preferences change. With CRASH (2004), I had a complete 180 on Isham. Blew me away, and I consider it one of the ten best synth scores ever written. This led me to re-explore works I had inititally dismissed, loved what I heard and now I’m quite the fan, with a considerable digital collection.
No one really in particular but Delerue/Jarre/Legrand took a bit more time for me. With Legrand, it is the piano flourishes and adult contemporary stuff.
That’s interesting to hear, slint, because I’ve always thought – from your FSM postings – that those Frenchmen were always your favourite composers. You have so much knowledge about them.
Hans Zimmer… it took me a while get into him.
I first noticed him when RAIN MAN came out, I loved that score. To this day I do.
The other stuff that followed, not so much. It’s not that I disliked him, I was just more indifferent about him. Other film composers interested me more.
Nowadays, I think he can be great, and I’ve come to appreciate a lot of his work. Incidentally, I am listening to INCEPTION this very moment, and yesterday I re-watched the movie. (Love both the film and the score.)
That’s interesting to hear, slint, because I’ve always thought – from your FSM postings – that those Frenchmen were always your favourite composers. You have so much knowledge about them.
I’ve always preferred other French composers, including Philippe Sarde, Francis Lai, Antoine Duhamel or Pierre Jansen.
Georges Delerue is obviously very talented and has some beautiful lyrical scores, so has always been very much on the radar. I guess it is simply a matter of taste: some of his scores are technically very advanced and very cinematic, but I don’t really fancy listening to them over and over. He is one of those composers that are almost too good for their art, with the music outside of the film losing a bit of its strength.
The other two are different. Maurice Jarre had the majority of his scores recorded in Hollywood and I find his French period mostly unremarkable. For Michel Legrand I think some of his Nouvelle Vague scores are great but for different reasons, I am simply not that much of a fan. Both Jarre and Legrand were also a bit monothematic like many European score composers. I can certainly appreciate they had a huge contribution in film music and were 100% into it (they conducted all their scores), so I am now a bit more appreciative after having listened their full catalogues.
What do you think about all the re-use comments as pertains to Sarde, slint? I don’t mind, personally, just as I don’t mind for Horner, and with about 20 Sarde soundtracks only, I don’t think I’ve noticed very much.
What do you think about all the re-use comments as pertains to Sarde, slint? I don’t mind, personally, just as I don’t mind for Horner, and with about 20 Sarde soundtracks only, I don’t think I’ve noticed very much.
Not at all, some re-use melodies, melody style, arrangement styles, instrumentation, influences and it is all the same to me. But Sarde did not re-use much melodies in the 1970s anyway, my favourite period.
Not so much a “composer”, but the type music I disliked and loathed the most before all others was “easy listening”… anything that was in the direction of Lawrence Welk or Ferrante & Teicher or Bert Kaempfert… you know the style… and that included most of Mancini’s soundtrack albums of the day and what not. When I seriously started listening to music as a teenager, you could give me Stravinsky, Ligeti, Boulez, Schnitte, anything with thorns and spikes, but if you gave me “easy listening”, and you ensured my disdain.
I’m much more mellow about that type of music nowadays and can take it for what it is.Yes, that’s a point I’ve made a few times over the years, although not so much in relation to music, but films. There was a time, probably throughout most of the 2000s (the tailend of my studies and slightly beyond), I was ALL about alternative cinema, and very anti-Hollywood — basically betraying why I became interested in films in the first place. That has since changed. In recent years, I’ve found myself going going back to my roots, mostly enjoying the type of films I dug as a teen.
As for music, I was never into that whole alternative, modernist scene very much. But I used to be all about bombastic, orchestral action adventure scores. That fizzled out sometime in the late 2000s as well, so for the last 15 years or so, I’ve been all about calmer, soothing, ethereal, lyrical textures and sounds, often with synths or pop ensembles or smaller chamber-sized things. I’ve also become less prejudiced towards composers with a pop background, and can really start to appreciate the scores of composers like Randy Newman, Mark Knopfler, Stewart Copeland, Ry Cooder etc. far more today than I could yesteryear.
Strange how tastes and attitudes change as you get older.
I don’t think it has ever happened that I started to dislike anything that I once liked, but I have started to like some things that I once disliked.
I don’t think it has ever happened that I started to dislike anything that I once liked, but I have started to like some things that I once disliked.
That’s an interesting reversal of premise. I really can’t think of anything I liked that I now dislike either.
you know the style… and that included most of Mancini’s soundtrack albums of the day and what not. When I seriously started listening to music as a teenager, you could give me Stravinsky, Ligeti, Boulez, Schnitte, anything with thorns and spikes, but if you gave me “easy listening”, and you ensured my disdain.
The label “Easy listening” IS kind of an insult to the music, as it implies a “hollow” kind of nonsense music that anyone could make. In later years, I’ve come to see this very particular kind of old vintage “library music” as sort of a lost art form. You now have a small wave of artists from the alternative/indie scene who have embraced this strange old genre, and are creating some really cool new stuff inspired by it.
Having said that, I still find it a bit too harsh to label Mancini as “easy listening”. Some of Mancini’s lounge-cocktail-pop-jazz tunes from his 60s and 70s scores simply has so much CLASS and complexity. Just listen to those intricate thick jazz chords from the string section in the original opening to the first Pink Panther movie, for instance. It is art. In his later years, he manages to take traces of those cocktail jazz-pop melodies and turn it into something hauntingly beautiful, like my personal Mancini favourite, MOMMIE DEAREST (never seen the film, but MAN, what a score).
Oh, there’s definitely LOTS of class and sophistication in ‘easy listening’ when it’s by guys like Mancini or Williams. Same as there is in ‘New Age’ — a term that was used for a lot of music I loved as a teen, but which was looked down upon by my grunge-loving, hip hop-obsessed contemporaries in the 90s. Enya, for example, was and is a massive favourite (have all her albums!), but I had to keep that to myself back then, LOL!
Mark Knopfler is an interesting case to me.
I was a big Dire Straits fan as a kid (another band that was not terribly “hip” among my contemporaries, especially not in high school), and that meant I also had to seek out Knopfler’s solo work. That included his film music, so I picked up the SCREENPLAYING compilation in the 90s. Weirdly, I had this prejudice against film composers with a pop/rock background, wherein I felt they didn’t have the dramatic chops needed. So I both kinda liked what I heard on that CD, but also not due to that snobbish attitude (which was also highly hypocritical, because I was a massive Elfman fan).
Anyways, all of that is gone now, and I can truly appreciate Knopfler’s film work. No prejudice, no fear of being “uncool”, it’s all good stuff. Both the solo albums and the film scores (LOCAL HERO, THE PRINCESS BRIDE, CAL etc.).
That’s an interesting reversal of premise. I really can’t think of anything I liked that I now dislike either.
Me neither although there are scores like Star Wars I listend to that often that I am sometimes a bit tired of them. If you know what I mean…
I had to keep that to myself back then, LOL!
Probably lots of us not having the hip music taste had similar experience 😉 Btw, I hated hiphop decades ago but warmed up to certain styles of it meanwhile.
LOCAL HERO works great although a bit “formless” as an album. Great theme. Besides old westerns and such a favorite movie I saw several times with my father.
I just completed a rather big walkthrough of Howard Shore’s work, to see if my evaluation of him has bettered — per my earlier post in this thread. Well, my main issue remains; I’m still not a fan of his droney affairs, or when he’s murmuring slowly in the lower register, which is a lot of times. Also, his lighter scores were more whimsical than I remembered. But my Shore collection now looks like this:
FIRE WITH FIRE — new
LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING
LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS
LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING
EASTERN PROMISES — new
COLLECTOR’S EDITION, VOL. 1 — new
MAPS TO THE STARS
ROSEWATER
TWO CONCERTI — new
FUNNY BOY — new
THE SHROUDS — newThat’s pretty good.
Yeah, the droney stuff is not that interesting but I guess you can say it works in its film. Well, minimum requiremennt for a film score 😉
What about ED WOOD? I remember that one as having quite a few good cues, and a very cool sound in general. With congas, theremin and «sirup-y» string arrangements, really nailing the period it was meant to be a homage to, while still feeling kind of fresh. I also think he balanced the fine art of being Elfman’s replacement, understanding the style but still not «becoming» Elfman, quite well.
For Ed Wood I think I am fine with the suite on the recent Paris concert album.
Anyway, in recent times I have come more and more to appreciate good soundtrack suites.
Sometimes I prefer them even over the OSTs. So, when I like to listen to a particular score I rather put on the suite than the whole album.For example, currently when I like to listen to Franz Waxman I put on one of his four Legendary Hollywood albums.
Regarding composers that I dislikedand now like, I am still waiting for the day when I will like the music of Hans Zimmer. Maybe this will be my final scream on my deathbed. “Oh Hans!” But currently unlikely.
There are some, like Bear McCreary, that I didn’t care for before Rings of Power. And I still don’t have a huge interest in his other work.
There are some where I have an on/off relationship like Danny Elfman.
Then there are some who make it quite easy to fall in love with if you encounter them with the right scores like John Williams, John Barry, Miklós Rózsa or Elmer Bernstein, Joe Hisaishi.
But apart from Williams all of these also did stuff that I really don’t like.As someone who adores Hans Zimmer, I’d love to tailor-make a recommendation or two for you, if you gave me some ideas of where your musical preferences lie. It pains my heart to see a German not enjoying the work and legacy of one of the greatest musical exports of the country. Not necessarily to change your mind about him — these “turnarounds” that we’re talking about in this thread need to come from within oneself — but at least as an heads-up on some things.
Maybe some explanation might help. What I am absolutely NOT interested in are atmospheric synth scores with meandering or droning low string imitation sounds like Zimmer’s Black Rain, the first time where I recognized his name. The only composer where I am really buying that is John Carpenter. And that not for musical reasons but because that’s an immanent part of his art and style of filmmaking.
I am also not a fan of the scores of Harold Faltermayer or Giorgio Moroder or David Foster.And I might have to differentiate. There is a difference for me between a score, that I find ok in context or what I like musically enough to want to listen to it out of context.
First album of Zimmer, that I heard was Hannibal and I didn’t like it at all. And I really liked Silence of the Lambs.
Often Zimmer creates score that I find ok in context but create zero aim to listen to this elsewhere.
And he like, like Göransson, a composer, where I sometimes even in context think, what crap is that.
I have no doubt, that Zimmer has some scores on a level of scores of other composers that I like good enough on album. Recently I listened to Revell’s The Crow and thought, this could also be by Zimmer. But it is also a score I rather.connect to not because it matches.my musical taste, but because I have a nostalgic connection to it.
Often, what really hurts my ear how he treats the orchestra.
Basically I could bring it to the formula:
I am interested in
melodies
textures
polyphony
variation and modulation
and originality and memorability in these areasWhat I recognized what I mainly get from Zimmer is
repeating chord sequences
original sound design
ethnic coloring
souvereign electronic sequencing
pop and rock sprinklesAnd surely some more.
All that is for sure objectivity not bad. But in its scope and limitation not my cup of tea.
Sometimes a piece of his starts of with the chords like a song and then you wait for either the song lyrics and.melody to start or a solo instrument starting the theme. But nothing else happens. It’s just that sequence. Time from Inception is such an example.
I am afraid, all that mumbling might not help you to chose any recommendations?
One more thing: A score that I found somewhat ok for listening was The Dark Knight. But I am not sure, if that rather goes to the account of James Newton Howard.
I am not the biggest Zimmer fan either. I find his typical and often parodied style a bit too «sound design» based for my tastes, and it sounds like he really wants the orchestra to sound like a synth. Which is fine I guess, but I get what you are saying about how he is «treating» the orchestra. Those big chords and the larger-than-life percussion banging away like you’re constantly out of breath, like the Pirates stuff, that’s what I’m really tired of. Almost as tired as I am of all that BRAAAAAM-obsessed hack’n’slash trailer music. Yawn!
Having said that, he does sometimes surprise me. I might be the only person in the world to say this, but my favourite Zimmer score is the small drama comedy SPANGLISH, which is so beautiful and lyrical. Highly recommended.
I get the feeling that when Zimmer really thrives, it’s when he gets to do exactly what he feels like, like with SPANGLISH. But more often than not, maybe he gets type-cast because producers or directors want that «Big Zimmer Sound»? Still, he manages to expand and do something really creative within that «big» sound, like with Nolan’s films. I liked INCEPTION because the melodies (or really chord progressions) themselves were interesting and a bit unexpected. Nevertheless, it’s often a kind of music that I find a bit exhausting to listen to.
And funny that you should mention HANNIBAL – which is also one of my very few Zimmer CD’s, because I find «Vide Cor Meum» SO STAGGERINGLY beautiful. But as I found out, that was not written by Zimmer at all, but by Patrick Cassidy.
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