[GerateWohl]

I don’t want to go into that rabbit hole too deep. But there are some aspects worth discussing. I admit, to a large degree my fascination about orchestral music has been fueled in my formative years by its usage in cinema. And yes, Star Wars and subsequent John Williams scores played a big part in it.

Now there were two paths in front of me. One to dig deeper into orchestral music in a traditional way and explore the classics or take that entry point to explore in general the world of film music.

Actually, independant from my general passion for movies I felt rather drawn to the classical world or let’s rather say to orchestral music of the 19th and early 20th century.

But what brought me back again and again to movie music. First of all John Williams himself. I love his music.
But there is another quite profound reason. I like the way orchestral film music is recorded. In classical pieces I often struggled with the issue that the quiet parts were too quiet and then the louder parts to London in comparison.
Not so in film music. With my soundtrack albums I didn’t permanently have to regulate the volume of my stereo system.

I often wondered why classical music doesn’t get recorded like film music. The sound issue was probably also one of the reasons why I got more and more interested in chamber music because also there I wasn’t facing these sound issues. I only found it sometimes a little annoying when the beeathing of the players was louder than the instruments. Happened from time to time.

Anyway, in the meantime I don’t differentiate that much between genres. Music is music. And I don’t have as much time for listening as I used to have. So, I have to focus a little. And John Williams still plays a main role in my regular musical program.

That’s my five cents on the topic.

[Malte Müller]

I often wondered why classical music doesn’t get recorded like film music.

Probably classical music is much less compressed (dynamic compression, not the mp3 shrinking compression I mean of course) and uses the full dynamic range from very quite to very loud as you would hear it in reality probably. Film music and especially modern scores make of coures heavy use of compression that make the quite parts louder so the difference is not that huge.

The extreme usage of that was a while back in the “loudness wars” of course when even classic rock/pop musik being re-release was heavily compressed. Not to speak that lots of moder pop music is compress to death and has no dynamic anymore at all.

My issue with classical recordings is often that concert hall sound as I like the dryer (but not too dry) film score recoding sound.

[Nick Zwar]

I don’t want to repeat too much from the Your Film Music Origin Story thread, but my interest in film music and classical music more or less grew parallel. I was just always attuned to music, I always noticed it, whether in a Pink Panther cartoon, a TV series, a movie, or when it was played at home.
The main focus of my listening tends to be what is more or less referred to as “classical music”, but I also listen to a lot of film scores, some jazz, pop, rock, eletronica, whatever… But my main “reference point” is probably “classical” music.
For me, the ideal sound would be the sound of the perfect seat in a Philharmonic Hall. The more natural, the better. I tend not to like when the dynamic range is compressed or unnatural. When I hear a flute that I think would not sound like that in a natural setting, I sometimes hear the “mechanics” behind it and imagine a mixing pult setting the flute to “louder”, so I tend to prefer the general dynamics of a performance to be captured rather to be mixed. But I tend to listen to music in the evening, when it is quiet, with the music from my loudspeakers, so yeah, when I hear a Daphnis & Chloe, I want the quiet passages to be as gentle and soft as just a wisp in the trees and the loud passages knock over my furniture, I think that’s what Ravel had in mind and how he wanted the composition to sound. But of course, there are some compositions that are already composed with certain mixing and dynamic decisions in mind, and that’s fine too. When I listen to music in my car, I tend not to pick orchestral music, but more electronic/rock/jazz etc. music, because a car is not suited for much orchestral detail in quieter passages.

[GerateWohl]

Probably classical music is much less compressed (dynamic compression, not the mp3 shrinking compression I mean of course) and uses the full dynamic range from very quite to very loud as you would hear it in reality probably. 

Yes. I get that. But in the concert hall the listening experience is very different from listening at home with a stereo system. In the concert hall I never had that situation that I could hardly hear the quiet parts and the loud ones were too loud. There everything is on a good listenable level. Maybe because I don’t have a concert hall at home. But who has? So, why not in general pay tribute to the fact that the listening experience is much different at home? And I don’t think, that I was the only one with that issue.

[Malte Müller]

I of course realized that you know about that. And I did experience the same in general. I think even had it with the LP of A VIEW TO A KILL back then.

I guess the missing concert hall part is really the issue and recordings need a different treatment. Wasn’t it some Varese or Lalala re-release that on some forums some complained about too much compression? For sure not everyone has a properly setup studio or audiophile environment that takes all the room accoustics into account perfectly (I for sure don’t…)…

Also, I guess we are all getting older anyway so the quite part problem will even grow more and more 😉

[Thor Joachim Haga]

I touched on some of this briefly in the “origins” thread that Nick mentioned. But to expand a little:

I hated classical/orchestral music as a child. My dad played it all the time, and it went on my nerves. Especially opera. But right before my teenage years, there was a change. I had started to latch on to progressive/symphonic/art rock, with lengthy instrumental passages, and electronic music. Somewhere in there, I started listening to, and loving, those “LSO Plays Classic Rock” albums (I think first via one of my dad’s cassettes that I got). With all those influences in play, I finally opened up to orchestral music.

Interestingly, I bypassed most classical music and went straight for film music. There is something about the emotional immediacy that I liked, and the reason I still prefer film music over classical music. In films, there isn’t always a lot of time for ornamention, the music needs to get to its point more quickly and succinctly. I preferred that, and still do.

But of course, in the wake of opening up to all kinds of orchestral film music, I’ve also dipped my toes in various classical music over the years. I’m not an expert like you, Nick, or Sigbjørn, but I’m on a level now where I’m at least above-average. And I obviously recognize a lot of overlap between the two.

As far as the issue of recordings is concerned, the low lows and high highs are almost only something I’ve encountered in film music, like those RSNO recordings from the 90s. Overall, classical music has been much better recorded, especially if you go back beyond a certain date. Those Karajan/Berlin Phil recordings for Deutsche Grammophon in the 50s sound like they were recorded yesterday. Compare that to any given score of the 50s, and there is no match.

Of course, with this severe tinnitus situation of mine, all those issues are now minimized in importance. Now it’s a challenge to even listen to the extreme dynamics of orchestral music, period, to say nothing of various recording techniques and mixes. My ears rest more comfortably with non-orchestral music, but I won’t let that stop me.

[Nick Zwar]

Yes. I get that. But in the concert hall the listening experience is very different from listening at home with a stereo system. In the concert hall I never had that situation that I could hardly hear the quiet parts and the loud ones were too loud. There everything is on a good listenable level. Maybe because I don’t have a concert hall at home. But who has? So, why not in general pay tribute to the fact that the listening experience is much different at home? And I don’t think, that I was the only one with that issue.

Not sure, I’ve never encountered a classical music afficionado who would want the dynamic range of a recording reduced or nivellated. Perhaps because what you say is easily achieved, either by (as you do) manual control, or automatic setups. Many stereo systems can reduce the dynamic range or level volume differences; my car even has a setting that automatically adjusts the volume if I want to. So it’s easy to reduce the dynamic range of a recording for home listening if you so prefer, but it is impossible to re-establish a compressed dynamic range.
I for one would not have classical recordings that would reduce the dynamic range of a Mahler symphony or a Strauss tone poem.

[Malte Müller]

Many stereo systems can reduce the dynamic range or level volume differences; my car even has a setting that automatically adjusts the volume if I want t

Radio broadcast use this a lot so the whole program is the same level.

Interestingly, I bypassed most classical music and went straight for film music. There is something about the emotional immediacy that I liked, and the reason I still prefer film music over classical music. In films, there isn’t always a lot of time for ornamention, the music needs to get to its point more quickly and succinctly. I preferred that, and still do.

Same for me actually. Film music also was the door to expore classical as I wanted to hear some of the influences that were mentioned all the time. I still have my problems with opera singing. Film music is still great for it immediacy and the often cross over aspect of styles.

[Schilkeman]

I remember coming across, what I found out later to be, Beethoven’s 9th on the radio when I was about 12. I just sat there and listened to the whole thing. “Long hair” music was not a part of my upbringing at all, and much to the chagrin of my family when I went on to pursue it. (They wanted me to play Jazz, but my relationship with Jazz is a whole other topic.)

I got into film scores and classical at about the same time, so I think they sort of fed each other. I fell hard for Star Wars when the Special Editions came out, and I recall playing a concert of space music in 7th grade. There was a trumpet solo for Luke’s theme that I was not good enough to get, and I determined that that would not happen again, so I brought my horn home and practiced all summer. It indeed did not happen again. I got a piano book of John Williams music and would play all the themes on trumpet. This is when I became aware of the breadth of his work.

I also taught myself piano to play his music, which funnily enough, I did not understand that bass clef was different from treble, so played all the left-hand stuff in the wrong key (or really, no key). Schindler’s List sounded weird, man! Fun times.

Similarly, the first time I listened to Mahler was a couple of years later. Any thoughts I had of being a composer kind of disappeared that night, as I listened to Bernstein lead the 1st symphony, twice, straight down. Someone had apparently already written the music I heard in my head, and done it much better than I ever could.

In music school, I learned the mastery of Haydn, Handel, and Bach, and learned to even better appreciate the mastery of Beethoven, Brahms, and Mahler. I still struggle with opera lol.

I still only really care about scores in the tradition of Western art music, and while I spent a good decade of my life listening mostly to the 20th and 21st centuries’ best and not-so-best pop music, I have all but completely returned to the sustaining, nurturing, beautiful bosom of classical. What a smart and pretty girl.

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