FSM # 19: Underrated composer/director relationships
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OK, so here’s the issue:
I’m the guest editor of an upcoming issue of a Norwegian film magazine, and the topic is composer/director relationships. I’ve written a long article on the Altman/Williams collab myself, and have many other great contributors as well.
I wanted to do a shorter article/list on top 10 underrated collaborations — meaning they shouldn’t be the most famous collabs (so no Williams/Spielberg, Herrmann/Hitchcock etc.), and they should have done at least 5 films together.
I already have a long list myself, but I wanted your input as well, in case I’ve overlooked someone. Female composers and/or directors are especially wanted.
So you are NOT doing an article, since this thread is from 2019?
For me it will always be Bobby Roth and Tangerine Dream. 6 movies together.
So are NOT doing an article, since this thread is from 2019?
The article was published in the issue later that year. Unfortunately, it’s not available to view online, only in the physical magazine. I’ll see if I can dig it up from a cupboard, to see what 15 couples I eventually landed on.
Roth + TD is an interesting one, for sure. And definitely underrated in the scheme of things.
I wouldn’t look much further than Tarr and Vig. Wonderful, wonderful stuff and, as far as I can discern, almost completely unknown outside specialist circles.
Anyway, I wonder who is rating director/composer collaborations, so that they can be underrated. Usually something like that is only done by film music nerds who are well aware of the value of such relationships.
That’s right. There are really only a handful of pairs or so that are famous enough to be “properly rated” amongst the culturally aware population. The rest are pretty much all underrated in the scheme of things.
One director/composer collaboration (on exactly five movies) that I found particularly fruitful musically is Joe Wright and Dario Marianelli. But that’s for sure not underrated.
Worth mentioning is for sure (probably one of those five you have in mind) is David Cronenberg and Howard Shore. I think, apart from Dead Zone they collaborated on every Cronenberg movie since The Brood. Until today. That’s remarkable on its own.
I think the Tony Scott/Harry Gregson-Williams collaborations are interesting. Seven movies, many good scores.
Anyway, I wonder who is rating director/composer collaborations, so that they can be underrated. Usually something like that is only done by film music nerds who are well aware of the value of such relationships.
That’s how I see it too…
There are the “famous” collaborations, such as Herrmann/Hitchcock, Williams/Spielberg, Morricone/Leone, Goldsmith/Schaffner, Doyle/Brannagh, Donaggio/De Palma, Cronenberg/Shore, Carpenter/Carpenter, etc…. but how are they rated and by whom?I always thought Jerry Fielding produced some his best scores for Michael Winner, so there’s a director/composer collaboration not mentioned that often. I also like James Horner/Michael Apted, but they haven’t done five movies together.
I actually didn’t, though not sure if that happened simultaneously with your post. I know a number more director/composer collaborations (I have not even mentioned Elfman/Burton/Raimi… well, now I have, ok, but I did not mention Chrichton/Goldsmith…), but just mentioned examples…
And we must not ommit Ozon/Rombi.
So much great music from that partnership!
And of course Shyamalan/Newton Howard.
And Miyasaki/Hisaishi and Kitano/Hisaishi.
Edwards/Mancini.
But none of these underrated, I would say. All highly acclaimed.But I could also name some overrated ones:
Abbrams/Giacchino
Nolan/ZimmerBy the way, as Shore scored all six LotR movies does Peter Jackson / Howard Shore count in this category?
John Williams and Chris Columbus had 4 1/2 together.
I actually didn’t
Right! Sorry. I didn’t notice.
Zemeckis/Silvestri hasn’t been mentioned yet. But I personally might find that partnership overrated. But probably just because I find most of Zemeckis’ movies overrated. Has little to do with the scores.
I would understand “underrated” as not so known for the general public which we surely don’t count as 😉 Since here are quite well known ones listed I name a few more of those:
– Fellini/Rota
– Sautet/Sarde
– Lautner/Sarde
– Polanski/Komeda
– Truffaut/Delerue
– Leone/Morricone (only 6 if you don’t count Leone produced ones)
– Besson/SerraAlso rather well known:
– Angelopolous/Karaindou
– Lee/Blanchard
– Avildsen/Conti
– Singer/Ottman
– Kurosawa/Sato
– Gerry & Silvia Anderson/Barry GrayA few German ones:
– Petersen/Doldinger (7 movies unless I missed one)
– Schlöndorff/Doldinger (3 only)
– Schlöndorff/Henze (3 only)
– Wim Wenders/Jürgen Knieper
– Joseph Vilsmaier/Enjott SchneiderAnd for fun a director itself underrated for a reason 😉
– Uwe Boll/Jessica de RoojiTwo things: First, adding ‘underrated’ in that thread headline from 2019 was really just a quick way to avoid the totally obvious, like Williams/Spielberg, Herrmann/Hitchcock, Leone/Morricone etc. Pairs that are famous even outside our small niche. And two, the target audience for the article that followed in the wake of the thread was people who are above-average interested in films, but not necessarily film music buffs like us. So it would be ‘underrated’ in THEIR world, I suppose, not ours.
I found the 15 pairs I landed on:
A.R. Rahman & Mani Ratnam
David Arnold & Roland Emmerich
Elliot Goldenthal & Julie Taymour
Franz Waxman & Delmer Daves
Georges Delerue & Francois Truffaut
Mychael Danna & Atom Egoyan
Anne Dudley & Paul Verhoeven
Johan Söderqvist & Susanne Bier
Richard Robbins & James Ivory
Alan Silvestri & Robert Zemeckis
Michelangelo Antonioni & Giovanni Fusco
James Horner & Ron Howard
Cliff Martinez & Nicholas Winding Refn
Patrick Doyle & Kenneth Branagh
Jerry Goldsmith & Franklin J. SchaffnerAnd obviously a paragraph with explanations per pair.
I see I also listed a bunch of runner-ups (although without explanations): Basil Poledouris og Paul Verhoeven/John Milius, Fumio Hayasaka og Kenji Mizoguchi, Joe Hisaishi og Takeshi Kitano, Danny Elfman og Gus van Sant, Erich Wolfgang Korngold og Michael Curtiz, George Fenton og Ken Loach/Stephen Frears, Hans Zimmer og Ron Howard/Tony Scott, James Newton Howard og Kevin Costner, Stefan Nilsson/Annette Focks og Bille August, Eric Serra og Luc Besson, Clint Mansell og Darren Aronofsky, Thomas Newman og Jon Avnet, Dimitri Tiomkin og Frank Capra, Michel Legrand og Jacques Demy, Alfred Newman og Henry King, Jerry Fielding og Sam Peckinpah, Alessandro Cicognini og Vittorio de Sica, Eduard Artemiev og Andrei Tarkovskij, Francis Lai og Claude Lelouch, Elmer Bernstein og John Sturges, Ennio Morricone og Sergio Corbucci, Eleni Karaindrou og Theo Angelopoulos, Steve Jablonsky og Michael Bay.
He, he…one is on the short side, Sigbjørn. Have you ever actually seen your beloved LADY JANE, though?
Anne Dudley & Paul Verhoeven
Did they make more than three movies together?
I just saw three.
– Black Book
– Elle
– BenedettaAll great by the way.
Just those three, afaik. The 5 rule was for the thread, not the article. And not really a very strict rule…
Gary Chang and Craig R Baxley/John Frankenheimer
Chris Franke and Bobby Roth
Paul Haslinger and John Stockwell
Mark Mancina and Antoine Fuqua
Randy Edelman and Rob Cohen
J Peter Robinson and Roger Donaldson
Pat Metheny and Jan Egleson
Nick Glennie-Smith and Randall Wallace
Since Emmerich and Arnold were already named:
– Emmerich/Kloser & Wander
– Tykwer/Heil & KlimekTwo more European ones I think not named yet:
– Roberto Rossellini/Renzo Rossellini
– Nicolas Roeg/Stanely MyersWe could also add (TV) producer and composer relations, too:
– Stephen Bochco/Mike Post & Pete Carpenter
– Stephen J. Cannell/Mike Post & Pete CarpenterDid anyone already mention Alberto Iglesias and Pedro Almodóvar?
Goblin and Dario Argento?And there’s Nathan and Rian Johnson.
And Thomas Newman with Sam Mendes.
And maybe Gabriel Yared and Anthony Minghella. But I think, they also just ha 3 movies together.Nyman/Greenaway and Goblin/Argento are quite popular among film buffs or above-average culture-aware people, in my experience. I’m not sure I would call them underrated. Both have great crossover appeal. But most definitely great, iconic pairs!
Not sure I find any of the aforementioned composer/director relationships over- or underrated. The terminology only makes sense if they are rated somewhere to begin with.
Nyman/Greenaway and Goblin/Argento are quite popular among film buffs or above-average culture-aware people, in my experience. I’m not sure I would call them underrated.
To be honest, in my recent posts I wasn’t thinking about tht under/overrated aspect as it does not make much sense to me due to the reason Nick just mentioned.
I think, these pairs are either existing in public conciousness or not so much. If we map “not so much” to underrated and “well known” to highly rated, I still have no idea what is here the reference group and what do they know.
Well, I’ve tried to specify a couple of times. I’m talking about a group of people — call them cineastes, if you will, or at the very least people who are above-average interested in films and culture. If you picture that group of people in your mind, what director/composer pairs are possibly NOT on their radar? It will always be ‘likely’ and ‘less likely’, of course, there is no evidence or data here. Just common sense. It’s very likely that many people in this group are familiar with the John Williams and Steven Spielberg collaboration. On the other hand, it’s unlikely that many people in this group are as familiar with the Mychael Danna and Atom Egoyan collaboration.
But it’s no big deal, really. We can just rattle off random pairs. That’s fun too! 😀
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