Hans Zimmer
- This topic has 69 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 5 days ago by
.
-
Posts
-
That’s actually what I said, so I am not sure what you disagree with? Of course Williams’ STAR WARS is also atmospheric, just like Zimmer’s DUNE is also melodic. The difference is a matter of degree, of emphasis.
Ok. My point is, I wouldn’t say, that Zimmer’s score is more atmospheric than Williams’. I say Dune is just atmospheric. That’s the difference. And to be honest, not an atmosphere, that interests me sonically in any way. I said it in the other thread about Dune. Dune is a very slow paced movie. And I feel that lethargic atmospheric music even slows it down more. A musically more interesting score could have immensly contributed to the audiovisual experience of the film.
Dune is such a score that just underlines the events on screen and puts exclamation marks here and there. I like film music (and Williams is such a composer) that has a musical and storytelling life on its own. I understand why modern directors like to work with Zimmer. You are not taking many risks. From director’s perspective it is mostly a “don’t get in my way, but let my work sound good” relationship. But that comes at a cost for the traditional role of film music. The result is, that at the award celebrations the score awards play a less and less role. Soon the composer might vanish from the opening credits of a movie and move just to the end credits.Well, as we touched on in this thread, atmosphere in music can take all shapes and forms, and can be both excruciatingly boring or totally immersive. I find it more useful to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, I like atmospheric cues that seem totally detached from the story and more about creating just visceral mood (BLADE RUNNER, for example, or Zimmer’s DUNE for that matter), and other times they serve a distinct narrative purpose on a micro level (like that Williams music for when Luke goes under that tree in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and faces his own demons).
Zimmer doesn’t always succeed – as I’ve said earlier, there are a great many of his scores in the last two decades or so that have left me completely cold – but when he does, he has this amazing ability to find the “DNA” of the film, to to speak, which synchs up beautifully with the director’s vision. Perhaps more than any other composer I can think of.
Dune is such a score that just underlines the events on screen and puts exclamation marks here and there.
Especially with the first movie I felt this different. To me the music was overly loud and all over the place counterpoint even in scenes that needed no music at all. I like when music play counterpoint but here I often thought “shut up” especially in some desert scenes that could have used a much quiter music or no music at all.
I probably still am (though I try not to be) but 25 years ago when I was extremely pompous and arrogant I had an allergic reaction to Gladiator. Back then, I viewed Zimmer as someone who could write entertaining music for action films but not as a “serious” composer (Thin Red Line apart, which I adored – and still do). So when I heard that power anthem stuff in Gladiator I thought – no, this sort of “cheap” music REALLY doesn’t belong in an historical epic! This is supposed to sound like Rozsa. And I couldn’t get over my own foolishness in that regard and it ended up polluting my opinion of him for a little while.
These days of course I recognise him for what he is, a genuine innovator who engineered a paradigm shift in film music which hadn’t previously been seen since the 1960s (had I been alive back then, I would no doubt have been lambasting people like John Barry and Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone for also not sounding like Rozsa). This is in no way Zimmer’s fault, but there is something still in there – Barry, Goldsmith, Morricone (and all the other greats who emerged during that time) are all completely, fundamentally different from each other – whereas the shift that occurred from Zimmer didn’t really see other innovators at the same time driving things in other ways – so perhaps that was when (in Hollywood at least) things became a little more homogeneous. Yes other composers emerged during this time who have their own voices (Giacchino, Desplat etc) but they haven’t really inspired imitators the way Zimmer did.
And it wasn’t just the musical style – it was the way films were scored that changed. By design, these basically interchangeable musical passages which can just be copied and pasted and modified at a whim when the film gets digitally re-edited – Zimmer was the first who really tapped into that, the first big film composer who managed to respond to the new way in which films were being made towards the end of the 1990s and then into this century. Which is a big part of why he became so influential, of course.
It is very simplistic, but I’ve always thought of his career as having four phases – I think he started off in the early days as being a bit of a Faltermeyer wannabe, then progressed to a Vangelis wannabe, then to a Morricone wannabe, before finally just being him. Nobody else has ever scored a film like Dune the way Zimmer scored Dune. At the top of his game he’s phenomenal.
Yes, I agree with your historical assessment there, James. Although I would probably make the phases somewhat different — first is up to RAIN MAN, then 88-03, and then Batman stylings onwards. Each with different properties. But all recognizable as him. I love how you can hear Zimmer even in the earliest of early days.
THE THIN RED LINE is of course brilliant, but it’s interesting how it seems to be a recurrent favourite for people who are NOT big Zimmer fans. That, and INTERSTELLAR
I don’t like THE THIN RED LINE or INTERSTELLAR. An early favourite of Zimmer for me is REGARDING HENRY. It’s such a strong score both in terms of emotions (parts of it are so cheery) and evokes a sense of place.
My feelings about Hans have evolved over time – nowadays Hans is more of a ‘BRAND’ than a composer – high rock star-esque concerts are entertaining-ish. They are new ways at presenting film music to audiences which he does deserve credit for – but these are not albums I return to listen to.
I really enjoyed Interstellar, and think it’s probably one of his best works. But I also enjoy some of the early stuff like True Romance. I also really enjoy Gladiator and do eventually want to pick up the LLL CD at some point before it sells out – just waiting for a deal to present itself.
It really irritates me how I messed things up regarding owning RAIN MAN on CD (which is an important score and film to me, for various reasons).
I never got the original 1989 release, but it only had two Zimmer cues on it anyway (about 11 minutes worth). Then I DID get the 2010 Perseverance release, but the sound was so abysmal, I unloaded it on someone. Then I intended to pick up the NoteforNote (2018), but procrastinated. Now it’s completely OOP (it was only 1000 copies) and goes for big bucks on the secondary market. That’s the one I wanted the most. I could live with the LLL release from 2025 too, but again, the price is too high all over the place. Damn!
Yeah, the price is keeping me from getting it as well. I hope for a download since it’s Lalaland. I must confess listening to the samples (well, an probably a digital boot or even the Preservance, not sure what it is I have…) the two tracks from the original album are a good suite of all major elements…
Btw, what do you say to the recent pop music involvement? Zimmer has contributed to Raye’s “Click Clack Symphony” recently:
It’s okay but it does not blow me away.
And more locally he contributed to cover hommage for our local rockstar Udo Lindenberg who just turned 80 and that probably no one know outside Germany 😉
That song is a rather recent collaboration with a newer artist and I think even his only actual number one. Here’s the original. I admit the version with Zimmer is a bit underwhelming…
Btw, Lindenberg has also film score connections: Besides doing some film/TV songs, he started as a jazz drummer in the early 70s and was member of Klaus Doldinger’s Passport and played on the first two albums (and the predecessor band Motherhood). He is also the drummer of the original TATORT theme version.
I’ve tried to give that RAYE song a couple of chances, but I simply can’t get into it. The cinematic end is pretty okay, but the rest leaves me cold. There’s no melody, it just stays in the same mid range throughout, and whimsically all over the place. But it was cute when Zimmer appeared on-stage to surprise her in one of her recent gigs. There are videos of this online.
That Udo Lindenberg thing, I was not aware of. That didn’t light me on fire either, sorry to say. Some nice string backdrop, but again the song is in that modern pop vein that doesn’t go anywhere. And each phrase ending on that annoying half note. I’m sure Lindenberg had more interesting stuff in the past.
Yeah, the price is keeping me from getting it as well. I hope for a download since it’s Lalaland. I must confess listening to the samples (well, an probably a digital boot or even the Preservance, not sure what it is I have…) the two tracks from the original album are a good suite of all major elements…
Of course, I own the NoteforNote digitally, but it’s one of those titles I must and should own on physical format as well.
the two tracks from the original album are a good suite of all major elements…
This track is among my favorites. Not on the 89 album.
I’ve tried to give that RAYE song a couple of chances, but I simply can’t get into it. The cinematic end is pretty okay, but the rest leaves me cold. There’s no melody, it just stays in the same mid range throughout, and whimsically all over the place.
Good summary.
But it was cute when Zimmer appeared on-stage to surprise her in one of her recent gigs. There are videos of this online.
Yeah, I saw that as well and wondered the whole time what is he doing (literally) on the stage 😉
That Udo Lindenberg thing, I was not aware of. That didn’t light me on fire either, sorry to say. Some nice string backdrop, but again the song is in that modern pop vein that doesn’t go anywhere. And each phrase ending on that annoying half note. I’m sure Lindenberg had more interesting stuff in the past.
Yeah, the song in its original version is for rather okay just for what it is. Nothing earth shattering. But this new version is really boring
This track is among my favorites. Not on the 89 album.
Yeah, but the theme and the rhythmic part is rather there 😉 It’s just like with all “suites” that some special occurance is missing. Which is why C&C has so many fans 😉
Of course, I own the NoteforNote digitally, but it’s one of those titles I must and should own on physical format as well.
You are of course in a very special position that you get digital review versions of albums that offically don’t have any 😉
I suppose I am. But the pull of the physical media is too strong sometimes, and I get no favours or special access there…
I was just listening to Spanglish. It’s one of Zimmer’s score that I just never think to play, but it’s really beautiful and well done. A hidden gem, I think. My entry into Zimmer was The Lion King, and The Rock, so it’s certainly very different from those. Gladiator made me a true fan of his, so I’m usually drawn to his more epic scores. In my mind he has that sound and style when I go to pick something to listen to, but he’s actually much more versatile than my memory gives him credit for.
I think SPANGLISH is Eirik’s favourite Zimmer score. Should give that another go, I have it on my hard drive (I currently oscillate between Williams and Zimmer a lot).
Don’t have SPANGLISH and not sure I ever heard it. But from some reason GLADIATOR never was a favorite besides the great main theme. And I do like epic Zimmer.
Hans Zimmer’s EUPHORIA is getting lots of buzz. Here’s my take on the season 3 soundtrack, for anyone interested.
LLL is releasing Hans Zimmer’s THE FAN:
https://lalalandrecords.com/fan-the-limited-edition-2-cd-set/
I like the 19-minute suite “Sacrifice”, which was on the OST, but I remember sampling an expanded boot once, and there’s a lot of “direction-less” music in it as well. I’m not sure it holds up to more than a suite, but I’ll definitely sample it to find out.
Wow, I didn’t see THE FAN coming. I believe the suite is quite representative though. I wonder if track 12 may be Jeff Rona’s additional music. Zimmer hated the movie, by the way. Kaya Savas’ liner notes will probably be in his usual ass-kissing style 😅
A pity Z never worked with Tony Scott again.
I don’t think this will be available as download.
A pity Z never worked with Tony Scott again.
Yes, would have been a good match, like with his brother. But I won’t complain. The T. Scott scores we DID get are (mostly) excellent for what they are.
Yes. I’m very thankful for DAYS OF THUNDER and CRIMSON TIDE. Also TRUE ROMANCE and THE FAN, albeit to a lesser extent. I wouldn’t necessarily need him to do the other films, scored by others, as (most of) these have their own values. But of course, it’s possible to speculate what the relationship would have been, had he done more.
Somehow I just thought THE FAN was one of ones Powell was involved but you can easily mix up when and who of all of Zimmer’s collaborators 😉 Seems I have an older album of this digitally but don’t recall anything of it.
I would have loved a Zimmer (or even better, Faltermeyer) score on REVENGE in 1990. Nitzsche’s score is so-so.
HGW did some fine work on stuff like PELHAM, DEJA VU and UNSTOPPABLE though.
I was sad to discover it wasn’t Pino Donaggio’s THE FAN 😞
I also have the original CD with the 20 minute Suite and find that does me well enough.
Still, with Zimmer seemingly up for the labels to expand his scores, that’s good anticipated sales for them to keep their lights on.Still, with Zimmer seemingly up for the labels to expand his scores, that’s good anticipated sales for them to keep their lights on.
I’m hoping for premieres rather than expansions. But I doubt Zimmer is up for it, given how he hated NfN’s releases of THE WIND and TERMINAL EXPOSURE.
But if Stéphane & co. truly have opened the doors to more archival Zimmer releases, I have a long queue of wishes. Score-onlys of PRINCE OF EGYPT or THE ROAD TO EL DORADO or SPIRIT: STALLION OF THE CIMARRON. Legit release of his tango-infused score for Nicholas Roeg’s TWO DEATHS, one of his few arthouse scores. Or CALENDAR GIRL & INSIGNIFICANCE, with just one or a couple of score tracks. More of that early stuff. And what the hell happened to ARE YOU THERE GOD? IT’S ME, MARGARET?
Just to mention some.
But for now….THE FAN.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.