Let’s talk collections and listening habits!
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There aren’t any revelatory remarks in what that guy says, but I wasn’t aware that new CD players were produced with extra gadgets like Blutooth etc.
I don’t remember any specifics regarding the origin of CDs in my life; only that they first existed in the outer rim of my consciousness, like some deluxe item that nobody could afford (much like Laserdiscs), until they were suddenly up and present and affordable. Early 90s, obviously.
While that guy is right that many people my age got rid of their players and their CDs (either given away or stuffed away in storage rooms), I’m glad that never happened to me. Yes, I’ve probably sold or traded off hundreds of CDs over the years, and I regret 75% of them. But it was for a different reason, perhaps to get a CD I needed even more. It was never to downsize.
I did eventually give my Denon CD player to my younger brother (who’s never really used it, and I don’t even know if he still owns it and if it still works), but I kept the great Pioneer DVD player from 2004 that played CDs as well as any dedicated CD player. And that’s the one that is currently up and running again, with my collection walkthrough. Meanwhile, all my CDs — all 1000 of them or so — are still proudly displayed on a shelf. Not at any point in my life did the thought even cross my mind, to sell them, give them away or put them in storage. They’re a piece of furniture, a statement.
But I realize we are different from most “regular folks” when it comes to this.
I’m glad to see CDs return in popularity. Maybe that bodes well for prices as well, at least on the secondary market.
But wasn’t the wide availability one of the reasons for why you could find deals on the secondary market in the past?
Yes, that was when CDs were mass market. CDs were once a mass market product, from the 1990s to maybe 2010, CDs were a mass market product. They reached its zenith around the turn of the millennium, that’s when they were at their absolute top. And from then on, over years, CDs sales shrunk year by year. So at that time, CDs were priced at their lowest. You could browse record stores in those days and find even new top notch CDs at sale prices. At the same time, many people happily dumped their CDs and switched to MP3. Many CD collections were dissolved; some second hand stores even had to stop buying CDs, because they had to fear they wouldn’t be able to sell them all.
But the situation has changed, now CDs are already a niche product. If now, like LPs, some people re-discover CDs or discover CDs for the first time, it’s more like the “turn of vinyl”. Vinyl was once a mass market product, but it survives now as a niche product. If CDs become more popular now, that doesn’t mean they will return to mass market status, it just means they have reached now more or less the point at which they will remain for some time. But that’s still only 2% of what they were two decades ago. When CDs become more popular now, it’ll mean more people will scout for second hand CDs, but it will not increase the CDs available second hand, hence they will become more expensive. New CDs are produced now in much lower qualities. It’s not like people buy nowadays CDs and then return them because they didn’t really care all that much or were disappointed in the content. Nowadays, people who buy CDs — new or used — usually know what they buy and hold on to them. So an increase in CD interest will actually raise second hand prices.None of this will effect our small film score niche much though, that’s been pretty much “stabilized” already. I don’t think it’ll have any effect on that niche within the niche.
Yes, I suppose if it follows the path of what vinyl has done in the last decade or so, then even secondhand, oldypants CDs will increase in price as well. At least above a certain quality level. But….it’s still possible to find LPs for dirt cheap, if you’re just browsing around randomly. So hopefully that will continue to be the case for CDs as well.
I recently read that some CD sales increase recently was because of K-Pop fans who – like it is said for many vinyl buyers – buy them as a collectible but not for listening to them. Since they don’t have any player for that anymore.
Probably it will not help 2nd market in general. But I rather assume that we in our niche within the niche will probably not see much of a change.
Indeed, our film score niche is pretty much stable for now.
You can still find great deals on CDs now and then, and there are still a lot of cheap CDs somewhere in second hand shops, there are still CD sales, there are flea markets, etc. But it’s tricky if you look for something specific.
But it’s tricky if you look for something specific.
Tell me about it! It’s tricky now. It’s going to get even trickier then, I guess.
I had a collection of around 200 LPs when CDs materialized in the marked. I had no reason to switch to a medium that is more expensive. And audio quality was really in question for the first CDs.
In the end they got me with the bonus tracks. Many new album had bonus tracks on CD that weren’t available on the vinyl version. Only once I faced the opposite. The first CD version of The Cure’s album KISS ME, KISS ME, KISS ME left off the track HEY YOU! which was available on the double LP. So, I kept the LP when I rebought the album on CD.
After some time I really enjoyed the comfort of not having to turn the disc and the absence of crlckles and cracks during the music.Another good thing about CDs was, that soon there was a flourishing second hand market because CDs were considered as something with hardly any quality loss after use. At least much better than used LPs.
Many new album had bonus tracks on CD that weren’t available on the vinyl version.
And now digitally you get a “track overload” with many over complete score releases 😉
After some time I really enjoyed the comfort of not having to turn the disc and the absence of crlckles and cracks during the music.
Yeah, all reasons I never had been a huge LP fan from the start.
I came of age during the LP era and was a late adapter to CDs. I already had hundreds of LPs when CDs were introduced in the early 1980s. And when I eventually got around to picking up a CD player, circa 1993/94, that was coincidentally when the Great Vinyl Purge began, so I remained largely focused on LPs.
These days, if I’m going to listen to music, it will be either an LP or a playlist of some sort, but I almost never play a CD top to bottom. One of the reason that I love playlists is I can eliminate the dogs and reinstate deleted tracks.
I find it interesting that over all this time the prices for CDs remained relatively stable, but the prices for LPs exploded. When CD started at the end of the 80s, the price was at 30 DM, which is about 15 Euro. Nice Price was 20 DM, 10 Euro. LPs costed between 12 an 20 DM which is 6 to 10 Euro. Compare that with today’s prices. Vinyl was the cheap medium.
Yeah, I remember when the first CD only releases appeared and I was “forced” to switch to a CD player. Of course CD I find superior.
When I last visted the record shop that primarily has 2nd hand but also new LPs I looked through the new LP soundtrack relaseses and again wondered how expensive these are.
find it interesting that over all this time the prices for CDs remained relatively stable, but the prices for LPs exploded. When CD started at the end of the 80s, the price was at 30 DM, which is about 15 Euro.
For “local” or regular releases it’s indeed true, for example a Caldera release still is at 16.95 Euros over here. But overseas CDs often were already more expensive back then with 34,95/39,95 DM already. Nowadays we generally have that price in Euro.
I started with LPs as well, I still have several hundred LPs. Of course I took great care of them, but I was never, ever entirely happy with LPs. CDs outperform LPs in every objective, measurable engineering dimension. LPs can be charming (I still have mine, and put them up sometimes when I play something), but they are technically inferior across noise, distortion, durability, channel separation, dynamic range, consistency, and convenience.
LPs have higher distortion, less dynamic range, less accurate frequency response, inferior channel separation, not to mention that they are susceptible to scratches and dust and demand high maintenance… not to mention that every single time you play an LP, there is wear and tear, which means theoretically after each and every play our LP sounds worse than the last time. I picked up some (a very few, really, I didn’t have all that much money) film scores (where I feared they might become rare) twice for fear I might wear one out one copy.Nowadays, once in a while I add an turntable to my setup just for fun (Technics SL-1200 LTD was the last one), and then I sell it again. Because, let’s face it: a good turntable is a fascinating device, they instantly give you the look of a music connoisseur. Turntables are “cool”. That’s why nowadays, you find turntables far more often in movies where the main character has one rather than in actual people’s home. 🙂
Basically, all I ever play are files and I would never want to go back to have to play physical media for music, though I might still put an LP on display. Because LPs have great big covers and have charm.
CDs outperform LPs in every objective, measurable engineering dimension.
I often feel that mono LPs sound much fuller, fatter, and richer than their mono CD counterparts. Stereo, not so much. Needless to say, you need to play back those mono LPs in mono for optimal sound.
I have The Beach Boys’ PET SOUNDS in both mono and stereo (on the same CD). I actually prefer the mono.
Have any of you ever had to re-import all your digital music files?
I’ve done it 5-6 times over the years, I think, and it’s become increasingly more laborous as the collection has grown.
I had to do it again a few days ago, when I had to set up the old laptop with the new hard drive. Spent three whole days a) importing all the music files from my external hard drive, and b) then importing it into iTunes (I erroneously installed iTunes 12, which sucks, so I had to to re-install iTunes 11 and re-import all the music). Had to do it in sections, letter by letter, as there are almost 700 artist folders and about 3200 albums (about 350 GB). As I’ve said before, I don’t want to play my collection from a cloud, or an external hard drive, or any other drive than the 1 Terrabyte C: drive on my laptop. EVERYTHING needs to go there. I’m weird that way.
Only problem is, a lot of the custom tags and edits and “whittled playlists” disappeared, so I have to do it all over again (fortunately, I’ve taken a screenshot of all the playlists, so I can re-make them). I’ll just have to do it gradually, as I encounter an album that lacks the proper editing.
Also, iTunes imported ALL the albums, not just the ones I had “chosen” to be in the iTunes collection. So I have to edit out those too.
Anyways….LOTS of work, and during the process, I frequently muttered to myself “why the FUCK do I have so much music?!”, he, he.
Have any of you ever had to re-import all your digital music files?
Not sure what you mean by “re-importing all your digital music files”… re-ripping them all from CD? God beware, thankfully not… that would be quite a mammoth project. But that’s not what you meant either.
Do you mean re-converting them into iTunes from a different format (so basically, iTunes creates new files from something), or simply pointing iTunes to the files and create a new library?I do curate a large digital collection, it’s my main way to listen to music (my secondary way is my Qobuz subscription). I don’t really play CDs anymore. All my CDs are ripped, plus I have a sizeable portion of lossless/high-res digital downloads from Qobuz, Chandos, Hyperion, Berliner Philharmoniker, and, and and… and indeed, I still use iTunes to curate them, hence they are all in ALAC format.
So if you mean by re-importing just creating a new iTunes library, I’ve done that several times, yes, but it’s never been any work at all… I just point iTunes to the files (..\Music\ALAC), let it create a new library from those files… and that’s it. My music collection is in one folder called “music”, which contains all the music files, a few playlists I use, etc. If I ever change laptops or re-install iTunes, I just point it to the subfolder “Music/ALAC” and voila, I’m done. And I’ve got thousands of files and albums.
Here’s an image of my music folder as shown on a Windows PC (it’s on a QNAP NAS, but connected as a network drive to my PC).
ALAC is the main folder, which contains all the music files (and nothing else), and ALAC is the only folder iTunes has access to.
FLAC contains a few select FLAC albums (that are also in ALAC, that’s for testing FLAC/ALAC differences in certain systems), indexArtwork contains images for MinimServer, MP3 contains a few albums only available as MP3, like MONKEY ISLAND soundtracks from the games, integrity-Logs contains file checksums (for verification/checking), and Playlists contain playlists.I don’t keep my music collection on the actual drive of my laptop… I try to keep hardly any actual files on the laptop. When I change to a new laptop or computer, all I have to do is install the programs I want to use and set up some personal settings. All my files will all be in place where I need them (cloud, NAS, connected drives, etc.), but not on the laptop itself. The only files on the laptop themselves tend to be temporary, if I do some specific editing.
Not sure what you mean by “custom tags”… does iTunes allow “custom tags”? (I know MP3Tag can insert any custom tag you want, but iTunes won’t read or touch them.)
Yes, that sounds like an easier and modern and convenient way of doing it.
Alas, I’m rather cumbersome and old-fashioned when it comes to my digital curation (weird to speak of old-fashionedness when it comes to such a new thing as digital files, but there you go).
I have all my music files (i.e. all my mp3s) on the C: drive. All of them. All 350 GB. A third of the entire laptop’s hard drive. When my laptop or hard drive crashes (which it just did), I lose everything. Of course, I have them backed up on an external 1TB drive (as well as my dad’s NAS, but that takes forever). And it’s from there that I must import all the music again. With more than 50.000 mp3 files, that takes a long time. Even if I do it in installments. Dependent on whatever speed the drive and the laptop allows.
Once I’ve imported them to the laptop’s C: drive, I must then import them to iTunes as well. I open the freshly installed iTunes, click “add folder”, select the folders I want to import, and it starts importing. Installment by installment, letter by letter. That takes a long time too.
‘Custom tags’ was perhaps the wrong word to use. I mean all the changes I’ve done to the album – creating playlists (which are not independent of the album, they are the albums with tracks taken out or in a different order), editing the covers, correcting the track names and so on. All of this is lost, too, when my hard drive crashes. And it’s not information that’s on the external backup either. It must all be added back manually when I re-import.
So yes — extremely old-fashioned and laborous.
As for iTunes, it’s been my preferred music player for decades. But when streaming took off, and the people who just listen to their own collection of digital files became a niche, it fell. iTunes 12 was terrible, and after that they disbanded it altogether. So I have to use iTunes 11 from 2014. At least for the time being, after all the hassle. While I was in the middle of the process, I was alerted to MusicBee, which sounds like iTunes was in the good old days, and which drains less power. That’s something I’m definitely going to try at some point, once I’ve gone off iTunes.
I use iTunes 12 in the latest version and am not quite sure what or if anything was better in 11?
But yeah, that seems quite cumbersome. I mean, great that you have a backup! That’s the most important thing! Always keep a backup or two.
I try to keep things simple and easy (because I’m lazy and I know things can — and sometimes will — go wrong).
I use iTunes to curate my ALAC files, but it is that collection (including all corrected track names, covers, etc.) is what is backed up, so if I ever need to re-install iTunes, recreate the library, all I need to do is, as you said, “add folder”, and iTunes inserts ALL my music (some 120000 lossless/high-res files, so it’s maybe 3 TB or so) all by itself in one go (in the time I take a nice stroll with my dogs). Complete, with all the tags, all the changes. That’s it. No issues; I’ve done this several times over the years: iTunes does it all in one go even with a collection of my size. Since I don’t use iTunes as a music player, but a curating tool, I don’t have any playback settings or playlists in iTunes that I need to worry about.
You must have pretty fast hardware if all of that is done in the time of a walk!
I use iTunes 12 in the latest version and am not quite sure what or if anything was better in 11?
For example, iTunes 11 has the tracks in two columns, 12 has one (which is irritating for albums with many tracks…film scores often do!). 11 picks up the colour of the album and adds it as a background to the track titles, 12 doesn’t have this feature. 11 has the album discretely to the side, 12 has it hard upfront, on the right side. And other things. I think there are several articles online that explain how 12 is inferior to 11 for those of us who just want to listen to our hard drive files, in a nice display setup, and not connect to stores or streams or whatever.
You must have pretty fast hardware if all of that is done in the time of a walk!
Or I do long walks. 🙂
Not sure, I guess it takes about an hour or so in my setup to re-create the iTunes library from scratch, but it’s a guess, I never timed it. iTunes does that in the background, I don’t have to “do” anything, which may be why I’m unsure about how long it actually takes.
Yeah, true… 12 does not pick the color of the album; I forgot that 11 once did. Nice effect.
But 12 shows the tracks in one or two columns, depending on how the GUI is set on the screen, I’m pretty sure. But yeah, I’ve only ever used iTunes as a tool, not a player, so could be that 11 is superior in some ways, I don’t know… 12 has been the version for so long by now.
Interesting that you still refer to “iTunes”. Is it still called that on Windows and is it still developed. As you probably know on Mac it is now just named “Music”. They deoupled a few things that were added like some video or else stuff in recent macOS versions.
‘Custom tags’ was perhaps the wrong word to use. I mean all the changes I’ve done to the album – creating playlists (which are not independent of the album, they are the albums with tracks taken out or in a different order), editing the covers, correcting the track names and so on. All of this is lost, too, when my hard drive crashes. And it’s not information that’s on the external backup either. It must all be added back manually when I re-import.
itunes/Music on Mac at least did/does store that info in a separate library file it must know about. I had to learn on my switch to a Mac Mini and my music is on an external harddrive. Music found all music and all playlists where there. But since I was on an older Mac previously which iTunes and now Music I lost nearly all cover. If they are not in the files itself but just added to the album they got lost. Some I could re-import via a script I bought for a few euros. But many I had to manually re-asign.
On macOS that libraly file is within a folder of the user account on the main harddrive (the equivalent to C on Windows) formerly called “iTunes” containing a file named ike “itunes library” and now “music” with a file called “Music Library”. Maybe there is a equivalent n Windows somewhere, too.
You have to backup that as well and re-transfer that first. Then do not re-import the file by dragging them on the fresh install. Instead use the options to point to the folder wher ethe music is. At least on Mac you choose a central media folder but you can choose if Music/iTunes should manage all and even re-group files by artist/album. Or if you like control about the folder structure disabled that (option called “Automatically manage media folder” or similar). Then Music/itunes will leave files and folder untouched and were they are. You can even import files from outside the main media folder without them being moved or copied there.
(weird to speak of old-fashionedness when it comes to such a new thing as digital files, but there you go).
Digital files on a harddrive IS old fashion and physical media is stone age 😉
And a warning: I don’t know about the Windows version but the macOS one is also the player for the streaming service Apple Music. Even if you don’t have that it offers some re-imports from there. It gets everything wrong and does not recognize things correctly. I thought I could re-import some cover. But not only the cover were wrong, it even change the titles at times. Avoid clicking on that at all costs if the Windows version has that…
I had never to re-import everything and I am using iTunes for digital files for over 15+ years now and I made (only) two computer upgrades during that time. Benefit of an external harddrive (which is backup of course daily or on larger changes if needed).
Interesting that you still refer to “iTunes”. Is it still called that on Windows and is it still developed.
Actually yes. I know it’s discontinued in MacOS, but iTunes is still maintained (I wouldn’t say “developed”, but it still gets updates) on Windows. You can also use iTunes to buy music from Apple, but I never did that, as it was never lossless. (Not sure if that’s changed now.)
I also use iTunes because, despite all its flaws, it does some things very well. I started my digital music collection with iTunes in 2013, when I started to transfer all my CDs to hard drive, and even though I don’t use iTunes to rip or play music anymore, it’s still a central point for a number of reasons for my “maintenance”. However, I know iTunes is basically a “dead end” for Apple at this point, but I also have MusicBee already in the lineup, which can do everything iTunes can on a local library and then some, so I could “leave” iTunes any time and just continue.And a warning: I don’t know about the Windows version but the macOS one is also the player for the streaming service Apple Music. Even if you don’t have that it offers some re-imports from there. It gets everything wrong and does not recognize things correctly. I thought I could re-import some cover. But not only the cover were wrong, it even change the titles at times. Avoid clicking on that at all costs if the Windows version has that…
The Apple Music store is still part of iTunes on Windows, though it doesn’t “mix and mingle” as much as Apple Music does. I do have the U2 album “Songs of Innocence”, which is the only album in my collection in 256bit AAC, as it was a giveaway from iTunes, so I got that.
If they are not in the files itself but just added to the album they got lost.
That’s why all my metadata — including cover art — is in the files. Every single file has cover art, I don’t have any folder images.
Actually yes. I know it’s discontinued in MacOS, but iTunes is still maintained
It’s not discontinoued, just renamed and some things like Podcasts have been moved to their own app. It’s still the music player app as before despite some layout changes here and there (some I like, some I don’t). You can still play local files, buy music from the iTunes store – which I haven’t done for years now – or use it with the streaming service.
(I wouldn’t say “developed”, but it still gets updates) on Windows.
I should have said “supported” as it is actually quite good as it is. Besides that I wished a few things here or there to be different or more flexible.
Sadly it is still tbe best msuic app for Mac for our type of collections. I search some alternatives and most were either not for “curating” or not developed properly… Hope they never cut the local playing…
That’s why all my metadata — including cover art — is in the files. Every single file has cover art, I don’t have any folder images.
I was not exact I meant iTunes/Music sometimes tricks you. I didn’t mean folder images, that does not work on Mac anyway. You can select the album info and add a cover. That does not always mean in the background it is added/imported to the files itself as well. But only to the internal library. So if you loose that the cover is gone.
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