The Classical Music Thread
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I think it was Sophie who asked for a thread like this somewhere. We have previous threads on “Film music vs. classical music“, “Film music and the Ballet” and of course the “What are you listening to now?” thread where people often post about classical music they’re listening to…but no thread dedicated to general classical music discussion. So here goes!
I like and own quite a bit of classical music, but my knowledge and collection pale in comparison to many of you.
https://x.com/raconteur_press/status/2072681866268709231?s=20
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Maybe it fits to start with a discussion what people mean by “classical Music”.
Basically there are two views.
One, and I personally lean towards that view, mean any kind of music from the classical era between 1770 and 1830.
And the other, where people regard any kind of symphonic non-descriptive absolute music from any period of time including today as classical music.I think of Classical Music as the olde stuff from the renowned Masters (Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Prokofiev etc) and some lesser known lights.
Then there is the Modern Classical stuff, from the likes of Phillip Glass, John Adams et al up to Max Richter, Nico Muhly and my current fave, Kevin Puts.
My first discovery of Classical music, like many others, was THE PLANETS by Holst, in my big brothers house (in London) as a young kid, when he said ‘if you like STAR WARS, you will like that’ and on playing his LP, I did.
Then a mate, soon after, asked had I heard Appalachian Spring by Aaron Copland (which I hadn’t) and he also said ‘you’re into that John Williams sh!t, you’ll probably like that’…and I did.
They were the first two pieces I fell in love with, around the age of 14…15.
Then I discovered Prokofiev (thanks to James Horner) and started exploring his stuff along with Copland. They remain my two favourite Classical dudes (probably) but I have enjoyed exploring many others down the years. Certainly not to the extent of my Film Music passion, but I’m always open to discovering stuff.
I also find A LOT of classical music quite boring, stuffy and samey. Yes, I’m a philistine, but quite honest and up-front about it.
I much prefer the Romantic stuff, replete with sweeping melodies and beautiful orchestration, in general.
But if I had to choose between Film Music or Classical Music, it’s Movie Scores all the way!!!The term we’re looking for is (Western) art music, though the term “classical music,” as opposed to music from the classical period, is synonymous, and most people will know what you mean when using it. Art, pop, and folk are really the three forms of music.
I’ve always used the more “loose” interpretation, not restricting myself to the classical period. So everything from lute music of medieval times, or gregorian chants (which is probably the oldest type of music I own) to the latest, contemporary concert music composer, is fair game.
I am also “guilty” of using “classical” in that general way because everyone does…. Often I also use “concert music” or “applied music” (which is also general…)
Art, pop, and folk are really the three forms of music.
I think I would add Jazz as the fourth though.
I asked this question in the A.I. -ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE thread too, but does anyone know of any good recording of John Adams’ «Harmonielehre»?
I have really no comparison and only know this one:
https://www.discogs.com/de/master/336600-John-Adams-San-Francisco-Symphony-Edo-de-Waart-HarmonielehreI think I would add Jazz as the fourth though.
Jazz has been, through its history, folk, popular, and art music. In taxonomic terms, those three are the domains, and Jazz a kingdom. I think it could be safely called American art music at this point, but why mess with a good thing.
Jazz has been, through its history, folk, popular, and art music.
I find the improvisational nature/focus of jazz sets it appart from the others. Of course there is no “jazz” or any type anymore, actually there are crossovers influences all over the place.
And Classical music often was the popular music of its time – after all Baroque music was played in the background of “parties” – and you could say that early classical music like renaissance lute music is basically folk music. Bascially the root of any music is “folk” because that was what it is first before it divided.
I use the terms context dependent. The best definition of general “classical music” I know is the one Leonard Bernstein used, that “classical music” is basically music written down in fixed form, that’s the (broad) main distinction, and puts it apart from jazz, folk, rock/pop, where the way the music is performed and the instruments used may very greatly from performer to performer.
So “classical music” is a continuation from earliest choral music to Bach to Beethoven to Boulez to Beyond…Now if it’s a discussion within this field, it may make sense to distinguish between “Baroque”, “Viennese Classical”, “Romantic” periods etc., but to “outsiders”, that’s all the same anyway, grouped under “classical”.
I don’t particularly like the term “Western Art” music, as it doesn’t really distinguish anything (isn’t Jazz and Rock also “Western Art”?), though that’s just personal preference. The important thing is simply to be clear how one uses the terms in any context.
But the Bernstein definition is the most satisfying for me.I asked this question in the A.I. -ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE thread too, but does anyone know of any good recording of John Adams’ «Harmonielehre»?
I have two, both of which I like very much and would recommend;
Michael Tilson Thomas with the San Francisco Symphony
Simon Rattle with the City of Birmingham OrchestraThanks, Nick. I found the version that Malte mentioned earlier, so going to check out that first.
Speaking of lute music, this is probably the LEAST masculine CD I own, especially that cover, LOL (it’s part of the Harmonia Mundi 30-CD box, which constitutes almost 50% of my entire classical collection on CD/LP). But it’s still neat. It’s somehow transfixing. I consider this classical music too.
Speaking of lute music, this is probably the LEAST masculine CD I own, especially that cover,
I bet a lot of John Dowland is on there (I admit the only lute centered composer I can remember the name of ;-))
I don’t particularly like the term “Western Art” music, as it doesn’t really distinguish anything (isn’t Jazz and Rock also “Western Art”?), though that’s just personal preference.
Yeah, especially since music in general is an art form already.
I bet a lot of John Dowland is on there (I admit the only lute centered composer I can remember the name of.
Actually, nothing by him. Instead, there are pieces by Anon, Gaultier, Despond, Bacheler, Johnson, Roma, Cato, Hely, Polonais, Perrichon.
Actually, nothing by him. Instead, there are pieces by Anon, Gaultier, Despond, Bacheler, Johnson, Roma, Cato, Hely, Polonais, Perrichon.
Interesting and to my shame I don’t know any of these other composers… (Gaultier sounded familiar first but quickly realized because of something entirely different ;-))
OH, lest I forget, I also have this excellent performance of “Harmonielehre”, a rather recent acquisition. The performance and sound is excellent, the cover image the best.
OH, lest I forget, I also have this excellent performance of “Harmonielehre”, a rather recent acquisition. The performance and sound is excellent, the cover image the best.
Thanks! As I said, I found the album that Malte mentioned. Nothing wrong with the performance, but the sound is mixed VERY low. I think I need something with a little more presence. I’ll try those other three now.
The recording by Edo de Waart and the San Francisco Symphony was the premiere recording and is already historically significant just for that and it’s generally well regarded. I don’t have it myself, nor have I heard it, which is why I can’t say much about it or compare it.
All the Harmonielehre recordings mentioned here should be available for streaming; they are all on Qobuz, so probably everywhere else too.The Michael Tilson Thomas/San Fransisco Symphony album turned out to be a live recording, with applause and everything. That was a bummer. But the sound was much more present.
The Michael Tilson Thomas/San Fransisco Symphony album turned out to be a live recording, with applause and everything. That was a bummer.
Why is that?
Oh, ok, didn’t know. Can’t say that I do, I suppose I have plenty of either. Most newer classical recordings are all live recordings, even though some try to conceal it. I don’t mind at all live recordings in classical music, as the audience is usually better behaved than, say, in rock music (where they often clap and yell during the music). So if it’s a live recording, I generally prefer that they leave the applause at the end, it’s more authentic, and can be great to just hear applause at the end of a performance (which you hopefully would when visiting a concert).
But by and large, it doesn’t really matter to me. Most of Leonard Bernstein’s later Deutsche Grammophon recordings are all live recordings, and they are among the great classical music recordings. One of the greatest Mahler recordings of all time, the 9th under Herbert von Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic, is a live recording.
So as far as classical music is concerned, I have no objection to live recordings at all. In any case, I think the Tilson Thomas recording is excellent.
Georg Philipp Telemann is probably the most prolific composer in the history of music, with close to 3000 pieces. So how to orient myself in his discography? If you could choose 3 MUST-HAVES, which works would they be?
From before, I own LA BIZARRE and TRAUER KANTATE in the Harmonia Mundi box, as well as 1:40 of his CONCERTO IN D MAJOR on the THE PAPER CHASE soundtrack.
Sorry Thor, but I couldn’t pick Telemann’s music out of a lineup, so I can’t help you. After Handel and Bach, which I find enough to be getting along with, I don’t listen to a lot of baroque music.
I’m only familiar with a tiny fraction of Georg Philipp Telemann’s enormous output, so I’m not of help either. So I can’t even list three “must haves”.
However, I can recommend this recording here, which contains three concerti by three different composers, one by Telemann. But it’s not a Telemann-specific recording.
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