The Odyssey (Ludwig Göransson)
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I just returned from Christopher Nolan’s latest epic, THE ODYSSEY. All three hours worth! Phew.
Many claim that Nolan is a director who lifts pulp material to art. I both agree and disagree with that statement, but were it ever true, it’s this film. There’s a lot of dialogue, with Shakespearean zest and lots of information (especially in the beginning), and although it has a curated selection of Homer’s fantastical setpieces from the epic poem, they’re done without much hooplah; they’re just “there”.
I’m kinda torn on the film. Is it a cheeseball that completely misses the feel and spirit of the poem? Or are the production values so good that it’s actually the best adaptation of the story so far? I’ll have to chew on that.
Strange for me to create a thread on Ludwig Göransson, of all people — one of the composers I like the least in all of the industry, but who everyone else seems to adore. And yes – here, too, there’s a lot of crap. Especially all those mindless, anonymous ostinati for the action sequences. Extremely simplistic, as is so often the case with him. The socalled “authentic” Greek music of the Ancient era is barely noticeable, and makes little impact. The best part is actually a moody synth tune, a love theme of sorts for Odysseus and Penelope, heard a couple of times in the film. But it just makes me think what this would have sounded like in more capable hands, like Zimmer or Vangelis, bless his soul.
Strange for me to create a thread on Ludwig Göransson, of all people — one of the composers I like the least in all of the industry, but who everyone else seems to adore.
Hell freezes over! 😉
I don’t mind Göransson. He just represents a development in movie soundtrack that I don’t like and which to a certain degree devalues the artform in my view, especially when he lays his hands on a symphony orchestra.
But he has got a lot of fans and three academy awards already. So, there we go. It’s a free business.His full name is even Evangelos Odysseas Papathanassiou. But oh well. The opportunity is lost now, like tears in rain.
I don’t mind Göransson in general. I don’t know an aweful lot by him yet. But I was never that offended.
For example Max Richter does not do much for me, too. But everyone seems to love him, including Thor 😉
I wouldn’t have minded Göransson either, if he was stuck composing things I had no interest in. Or if he wasn’t so revered. But like Giacchino, it’s the “Emperor’s New Clothes” syndrome, plus the fact that they wriggle their way in to things I DO have an interest in. I becomes kinda difficult to ignore. It becomes very present in my field of vision and thus annoying instead.
Yeah. I haven’t heard anything of Göransson’s Odyssey score yet. But even though I don’t care much for the Oscars, imagining him winning that academy award over Williams’ Disclosure Day kinda hurts. Very very deeply.
All successful PR 😉
But even though I don’t care much for the Oscars, imagining him winning that academy award over Williams’ Disclosure Day kinda hurts. Very very deeply.
Not having heard DISCLOSURE DAY completely yet nor much other score, so I have no idea who else would be worth to do currently. But as you I don’t care that much for the Oscares. Always feels like always the most successfull stuff wins in most categories anyway.
Always feels like always the most successfull stuff wins in most categories anyway.
This absolutely makes sense. The nominations are done by the experts, final vote comes from the academy crowd. If you are a layman on a matter and you are entitled to vote, voting either the most successful or or someone who has already won before is natural.
I don’t mind Goransson and find him to be of the better, new(ish) composers.
When he’s riffing on Bill Conti his scores are fun and I like that he’s quite cutting edge and ‘with it’ using other musical styles for his scores.
Mando & Grogu is excellent and will be in my Top 5 Best of this year, I have no doubt.
His work on SINNERS was also very good, producing score, songs and source music.
I don’t like TENET or OPPENHEIMER though.That’s funny, because OPPENHEIMER (at least a 32-minute playlist of it) is the only one I kinda like, and the only Göransson in my digital collection. The rest has either been third-rate Conti, or cloppety-clop, anonymous ostinato things, that has either left me completely cold or physically annoyed.
I think it’s a bit harsh to call him Emperor’s New Clothes, Thor.
It’s not that at all. It’s just a composer you personally don’t care for.
That kind of schtick was levelled at the likes of Zimmer and co, when they got really ‘in’ and ‘popular’ as well.
There’s a reason Ludwig and Giacchino et al are hugely popular and in-demand and their fame and success is down to talent, graft and hard work, plus good networking skills and having ‘good mates’ in the biz on the same way up.
I don’t seem to be able to connect much with Dan Pemberton scores in general, but I wouldn’t rag on him as some kind of bluff cos he scores films that I would prefer went elsewhere.
Shame on you, Thor 😉😃He, he. Nothing wrong with labeling something or someone overrated, I think, if the music has shortcomings that you consider ‘transparent’, and hence incomprehensible why they are so in-demand.
Clearly, they are doing SOMETHING right, since they get these gigs (I definitely agree on the networking bit), but it’s not something that is mirrored in the music itself, IMO.
If you find Pemberton overrated, that’s certainly your right. I’ve found him hit and miss, but more hits than misses. Generally a talented chap who deserves the gigs and kudos sent his way. A whole other league than G&G.
I would also add that things aren’t necessarily ‘overrated’ just because you don’t like them.
Let’s take director Wes Anderson, for example. I’ve never liked his films. Yet I have no trouble recognizing WHY he is so celebrated. The sculpted visual worlds, the Kubrick-ian symmetry, the smart writing and so on. I would never call him overrated just because I don’t like his films.
Meanwhile, you have someone like the Russo brothers. I’ve never been able to see what they bring to the table in terms of cinematic excellence, yet they kept getting used by Marvel. They were probably good at navigating a big blockbuster franchise, but there is nothing in it beyond that. These I would have no hesitation to label overrated. Ryan Googler too, as long as we’re talking Göransson.
So although everything is (obviously) based in a subjective evaluation of their work, it varies if that also extends to an evaluation of their talent or “rightful” place in the industry. If they’re the “Emperor’s New Clothes” or not.
“Generally a talented chap who deserves the gigs and kudos sent his way. A whole other league than G&G”
And that comment is, in a nutshell, exactly how I would argue the opposite, regarding Goransson, Giacchino etc.
PROJECT HAIL MARY, both film and score, were praised to the high heavens and achieved massive acclaim, yet I found both incoherent and messy, tonally.
In the end, it’s ALL subjective and just down to personal taste.
“He likes that one…she likes that one”This thread talked a bit about the criteria we use to orient ourselves in this world, to decide the quality of something. I think if you put Göransson under the scrutiny of those criteria, he would come up short in most cases. Even if all of those criteria have some degree of subjective interpretation in them. To be fair, there are small bits and bobs in his scores that are decent – I mentioned OPPENHEIMER earlier (at least part of it), and the electronic love theme in THE ODYSSEY. But they’re not enough for me to call him talented, and certainly not enough to justify the position he has in the industry. The simplistic, inane solutions far outweigh the few snippets of decency.
Vice versa, I’ve never really liked Jonny Greenwood’s work. But I can UNDERSTAND what he brings to the table. Same with Mica Levi. There’s an artistic voice in there that doesn’t necessary appeal to me, but it’s THERE. I can find no such thing with Göransson.
Sounds like you’ve just ‘switched off’ towards him (or never switched on). It happens. Doesn’t mean he’s lacking in any way, shape or form. You just don’t ‘get’ his music/style.
Hehe. We should have a thread where we admit to not liking popular artists. But the other way around is more interesting and less confrontational, i.e. admitting to liking artists that few others do. For example, I will stand on the bannisters and defend Lorne Balfe and Junxie XL.
That’s a good topic. There are approximately between 500000 and 750000 movies in this world to date. Almost each of them has any kind of score. And if I disliked one of these scores, I am just not getting it? In my view liking something is not a matter of understanding but a matter of taste.
I would rather claim the opposite: I you like or “understand” every movie score, then you have no taste.
Taste does not only mean liking things but also disliking things.For example, I will stand on the bannisters and defend Lorne Balfe and Junxie XL.
Not a fan of both but Balfe is for sure a good craftsman if only given the occasion like this TV fantasy series recently (sorry black hole where the name is). And Junkie XL has indeed developed greatly despite his orgins I think.
The album is apparently out, or coming out tomorrow, and it’s TWO FRIGGIN’ HOURS long! Absolutely ludicrous, even if it were a composer I liked. It’s no longer an ‘album’, really, but an archive.
Be that as it may, I’ve promised myself to give it a chance and see if it is at all possible to whittle it down to about half an hour. There were two good bits that I remember. One was the electronic love theme that I mentioned earlier, the other was some ethereal choir music for the aftermath of the Trojan war.
Just saw the film, and listened to the soundtrack twice. There is a lot to digest.
I saw the film at Klingenberg, where the sound was rather too poor for such an important experience. It spoiled a lot of the sonic/musical moments for me, with booming bass. Thank goodness for the texting! After a slightly chaotic first hour, the film found its pace and ended up being rather good, I think. Musically, I’m of two minds. There is some brilliant originality there, which paints a surreal mood over the whole experience. A simple melodic score would have been completely wrong for the spiritual, god-driven atmosphere of the film. For me LG’s music oscillates between brilliance and “not for me”. He clearly has a profound talent, but doesn’t always write for the kind of film that moves me.
The vocal contributions were a nice touch, I think. And the final “outro” credits song was nicely done — a blend of modern and back to the 90s, Lamb.
I tend to agree with Thor that the 2 hour long album is too much. Some of it is superb, definitely surpassing what Zimmer could have contrived, but some editing would have helped a lot. It’s a sign of our streaming times that one can simply dump an electronic score without editing rather than produce a special album, as in decades past. I do think that this is some of LG’s best music since the Mandalorian (season 1). In an increasingly formulaic industry, he is one of the few innovative voices in music. There must be new voices.
It’s easy to underestimate how much the score carries the film. Some parts would not have worked without the layered tension that sometimes seems to go on for too long on the album, but were timed perfectly in terms of action. The film doesn’t waste time, in spite if being 3 hours long. Sometimes the editing almost feels nonchalant — deliberately not making a thing of certain moments (as Thor alluded to).
There were some weaker moments in the score, but the most annoying part for me was the American accents of the actors. The more street-rap they were, the worse it felt. Much as I tried to switch off and treat it as a common but translated vernacular, someone would slap me out of it with an awful line delivery. The discussion that has blown up about the race of the casting choices did not bother me at all. The jet black Helen of Troy was nothing if not a face to launch a thousand ships. Stunning. I thought the casting was mostly pretty great.
Good review, Mark, although we disagree somewhat on the merits of the score. (Klingenberg was a terrible venue for this, though….I think it’s either Cinemateket in 70mm — which is where I saw it — or IMAX that are the go-tos).
Would be interesting to read more comments on this as people get to see it. It’s one of those event films that usually creates a lot of buzz.
Been reading some crazy posts over on FSM regarding this. One poster who didn’t like it claims the film is not a success.
That kind of cognitive disconnect will never cease to amaze me – “I don’t like this thing, therefore it is not successful”.
I sure as hell don’t like Göransson, and don’t understand his success, but I won’t deny that he IS successful.
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