Your Thoughts on Dimitri Tiomkin
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Tiomkin was always a strange one to me. I never particularly liked his themes and the way they seemed channelled into a “hit song” mold. I often found his music intrusive and too “in-your-face”. I still feel that’s the case with many of his scores.
Having said that, I do like 36 HOURS , and just recently purchased the 2011 re-recording of THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE , which is magnificent. I’m so glad I eventually got that one. It’s big and bold and full of showbiz razzmatazz (I can imagine Rózsa frowning at this approach), but I think its this almost incongruity that sets it apart from a lot of other Hollywood epic scoring.
I don’t think I’ll ever become a Tiomkin fan, but I’m wondering which other scores of his I might like. THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD is one. I’m in two minds about THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA – I dipped into a few tracks of that and it didn’t quite do it for me.
So, what’s your opinion of the music of Dimitri Tiomkin?
I have more or less the same issue with Tiomkin as you have. His melodies don’t really hit me. What I really like is his score for DIAL M FOR MURDER. There exists a great rerecording. Somehow Hitchcock seems to have been one of those directors who get the best out of their composers.
For the longest time, I avoided Tiomkin as I too often found his music abrasive. Not nearly as abrasive as much of Albert Glasser’s works, but abrasive nonetheless. “Intrusive” and “In-your-face” would definitely describe Tiomkin and especially Glasser.
However, I decided to finally give Tiomkin a chance a couple of years ago. Before I knew it, I couldn’t get enough of him. I started grabbing whatever releases of his I could get my hands on. While there are a couple of scores I still haven’t warmed up to, particularly “Champion”, I found his music far more approachable despite the descriptions mentioned. I grew to appreciate his seemingly “In-your-face” approach. Needless to say, I definitely warmed up to him.
I’m glad you brought up “36 Hours”, as that one ended up being my favorite of his scores so far. It’s followed by “Cyrano de Bergerac” and “Land of the Pharaohs”, which constitute my current top three Tiomkin favorites.
I actually do like Tiomkin which may have its roots in being a Western fan. I do agree that he is a bit too “in the face” at times.
I only sample the new recording of OLD MAN AND THE SEA so far but it was never a favorite of mine. I like his westerns where ALAMO is my least favorite as it literally rides the theme to death. But of the non westerns ROMAN EMPIRE is also a favorite of mine. I also like GUNS OF NAVARONE or 55 DAYS IN PEKING (particulary the main title).
Dimitri Tiomkin was perhaps the first film composer I knew by name, definitely one of the first, along with maybe Henry Mancini and Lalo Schifrin.
Dimitri Tiomkin was also the first film composer whose film scores I noticed in the movie, when I watched THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY and HIGH NOON as a kid. Tiomkin was a wonderful composer, inventive, bold. One of my favorite Tiomkin scores is GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL.
One of my favorite Tiomkin scores is GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL.
Great one and gladly finally released a few years ago.
According to the soundtrackcorner some Prometheus CDs including the recordings Tadlow did for them and which ROMAN EMPIRE is one of are available again. So not all of Tadlow’s catalogue is lost…
Thanks for the comments so far, all. I put a similar question, specifically about THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, on the FSM Board, and MichaelM replied that “it’s wonderfully overblown”. Maybe the adverb “wonderfully” is what makes the difference between the pre-convert Tiomkin me and the post-convert me.
Last week – “Why don’t you like THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE?” “It’s overblown.”
This week – “Why do you like THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE?” “It’s wonderfully overblown. ”
Truth be told, I don’t think I’ll ever be a proper Tiomkin fan, but I amnow a fan of THE F OF THE R.E.
Funny you should ask this now, Graham. One of the last threads I did on FSM before I retired from that place, was a thread not unlike yours.
I’ve never had any issues with Tiomkin’s “tunesmith” abilities. In fact, that was a strength. Simplicity can be great. But it’s the overbearing quality of a lot of his work otherwise that sometimes goes on my nerves, like other people have said here.
That being said, I’ve landed on seven Tiomkin albums in my collection at this time – DUEL IN THE SUN, IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE, RED RIVER, WILD IS THE WIND, THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA, THE GUNS OF NAVARONE and THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. Whenever needed for most of these, I’ve made my own whittled playlists that work quite well — weeds out some of the excessive, bombastic stuff and leaves some neat albums. Since you recently acquired FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, I want to share with you my playlist of that, i.e. the Nic Raine version. 58 minutes, makes the album come to life in a whole other way than dredging your way through all of it (razmatazz or not):
That’s an old image, but yes — now I’m pretty much up to speed (except that I wanted an earlier version than 11.4).
Hey Thor, that’s a nice playlist of FALL. Nevertheless, I surprise myself by finding that it needed no whittling. As I said before, it plays like a full-blown concert work. I wouldn’t jettison any tracks.
I’m kind of intrigued by the others on your list. Ignorance tells me that RED RIVER and DUEL IN THE SUN wouldn’t be to my taste, but a year ago I would have thought that of ROMAN EMPIRE.
In some ways I think I’m developing backwards (regressing?). I’ve also recently taken a renewed interest in Alfred Newman. There lies another topic.
I think RED RIVER and DUEL OF THE SUN are not always that overblown. But I am biased like his westerns specifally. Like some other Golden Age composers Tiomkin works pretty good on themes/suites compilations. I think I had these before even diving into full scores:
– https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1326231-Dimitri-Tiomkin-The-Film-Music-Of-Dimitri-Tiomkin (Re-recordings – probably my first as I have this as an LP)
– https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1174583-Dimitri-Tiomkin-The-Film-Music-Of-Dimitri-Tiomkin (Sony compilation)
– https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1391372-Dimitri-TiomkinJohn-McCarthy-Singers-With-The-London-Studio-Symphony-Orchestra-Conducted-By-Laurie-J
– https://www.discogs.com/de/master/448415-Tiomkin-National-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Lost-Horizon-The-Classic-Film-Scores-Of-Dimitri-TiomkinVocalion released a version of the GErhardt compilation with a bonus suite of THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD which is also missing on the 12 CD Gerhardt bargain box that was released a few years ago:
– https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12605239-Charles-Gerhardt-National-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Lost-Horizon-The-Classic-Film-Scores-Of-Dimitri-TioHey Thor, that’s a nice playlist of FALL. Nevertheless, I surprise myself by finding that it needed no whittling. As I said before, it plays like a full-blown concert work.
Really? A 140-minute concert work? That’s pretty rare. Even my 58-minute whittle felt like stretching it a little bit.
I also have a 41-minute whittle of RED RIVER and a 39-minute whittle of DUEL IN THE SUN, for example. Tiomkin seems to me specially in need of properly curated selection.
Or some ballets. Prokofiev’s complete ROMEO & JULIET runs 2:21. But you could say he already whittled it down himself 😉
Nothing wrong with whittling down anything if you are so inclined, lots of ballets, operas, etc. exist in Suites and “Highlights” CDs. I generally prefer sooner or later to know the whole thing, but they can serve as entry points or a nice listen in between. Heck, there are even 10 minute abbreviations of all kinds of movies now on YouTube.
I like the suites Bernard Herrmann condensed for his Phase IV recording series and often return to them.I like the suites Bernard Herrmann condensed for his Phase IV recording series and often return to them.
Indeed, those are great.
Didn’t bother me either, I like some of the slower performances, and the sound quality is top notch. And tempo in music is for a most part a relative value. So there are whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, etc… that determine the relationship of the values to each other, but the absolute value of these notes is decided by the conductor during the performance. Now, the larger the orchestra, the larger the hall, the larger the sound, and the slower the performance tends to be.
That’s an old image, but yes — now I’m pretty much up to speed (except that I wanted an earlier version than 11.4).
I remember earlier iTunes versions even had the really fun “cover flow” view, where you could flip through your albums in an endless row… that was pretty cool… I would like that back again, though I don’t remember which iTunes version dropped that… 10?
And tempo in music is for a most part a relative value.
Yes, to some degree all tempo markings in scores are open to interpretation. Of course many film score fans like the exact tempo etc as they are used to from the movie itself. I am a bit in the middle there often.
I remember earlier iTunes versions even had the really fun “cover flow” view, where you could flip through your albums in an endless row… that was pretty cool… I would like that back again, though I don’t remember which iTunes version dropped that… 10?
I rememeber that cover flow mode as well. Although I never really used it as I prefer and preferred the album album view mostly.
macOS had that also in the finder for skipping through files and folder. There is a kind of gallery view but the actual effect is also gone.Speaking of re-recorded compilations, I did have this Tiomkin CD from RCA once. Pretty spacey acoustics on that, and slow tempo. I sold it off or traded it off too early, because it’s pretty collectable now.
CYRANO DE BERGERAC was a particularly nice score, I remember, like Blaize mentioned earlier.
That whole series sadly suffered from that spacey acoustics. I only had one CD – THe Chaplin one by Carl Davis – that I also sold (and he did better recordings of those scores). I have digital album of the original NOSFERATU score. However that has a much better and newly reconstructed version on a DVD meanwhile but sadly not release as an official album. And Hindemith’s IN STURM UND EIS as well (but there is another better version, too, which had an album)
CYRANO was rare at the time but I think there is meanwhile a relaese of the archival score on Screenarchives.
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