[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I only bought one LP this century, and it wasn’t to play it either. Just for display.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Yes, that’s true of course. Whereas classical music albums always (even in LP days) came with extended liner notes, the original soundtrack album releases usually didn’t have any. But that is because for the most part, especially in the 1970s to the 2000s, the “Original Soundtrack Album” was a promotional tie-in product. There is no room for a (critical) assessment, overview, and background information about the music or scoring process. That was not the audience these albums were made of. That’s like the “making of” featurettes on current movie releases often feature little more than a few actors telling each other how great working together was. It becomes more interesting when older movies get remastered releases, when you find sometimes very interesting features, background stories, etc. (With THE HEART OF DARKNESS documentary being almost as interesting as the movie APOCALYPSE NOW itself.)
So on those older soundtrack albums, you may get a nice note from the director (if you’re lucky), or nothing but a few stills and album credits. They were more produced like “pop” albums, where you usually only get a few stills of the artist and credits (and if you’re lucky, the lyrics of the songs, always liked that), more isn’t needed.
Though it’s been a while that I bought a soundtrack CD of a then more or less concurrent movie release… not sure… maybe INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY was the last one.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Same with operas, I appreciate if there’s a libretto and summary of what’s going on and why who is singing what, since most operas are hard to follow if they are sung in a language you don’t understand and don’t see what’s going on. BLUEBEARD’S CASTLE is such a case where good liner notes (with translated libretto and stage directions) really help to “put you on the journey”.

I have the Marco Polo recording of Dimitri Tiomkin’s RED RIVER on my desk here, that has really good notes. There’s an introductory note by the conductor (William Stromberg), short notes about Tiomkin, notes about how the recording came about, quotes by Tiomkin himself and Christopher Palmer, notes about Howard Hawks and the movie, what Hawks was trying to accomplish and how that aligned with Tiomkin’s music, as well as a detailed track by track analysis of the complete score. That’s a lot packed into 30 pages or so.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I sure have lots of film music where I haven’t seen the movie, so I appreciate good liner notes that tell me something about the movie and how the music is generally applied and functions within it.
As I said, I don’t think there is just “one right way” for liner notes. Track by track analysis can make a lot of sense, especially when the film score is composed to picture with a clear compositional and dramatic narrative that reflects certain key moments, or when musical concepts and devices reflect key ideas of the movie. Also, often times I haven’t even seen the movie, so a general outline about the function of the music within the movie can be quite interesting. On the other hand, there is a lot of film music that is composed completely different. When a film score is more composed with certain moods or themes or doesn’t have a symphonic/narrative structure, a track by track analysis isn’t really important.
I think by and large the best liner notes give you insights about the music that are not readily obvious or background information (about the movie, the composer, the time when the music was composed, etc.).

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Interestingly, I see that — often, not always — the other way around. For soundtracks, they feature often very interesting in depth information and material not found elsewhere and quite a few insights, whereas — while I appreciate the booklet in classical recordings — they rarely offer information beyond what is already easily available in various books and concert guides anyway. (Just a generalization, of course.) That doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy good booklets in classical music as well. In pop/rock, informative booklets are the exception to the rule to begin with.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I enjoy good booklets, ideally with lots of background information that places movie, music and composer in context. Some of the old Marco Polo releases had wonderfully exhaustive liner notes. I also enjoy when the booklet illuminates aspects of the film, music, and score that are not immediately obvious, or what the central themes and ideas of a score are, or about director/composer relationship, why unusual instrumentation was chosen, and, and…
They don’t have to be all the same either, sometimes a track by track analysis can make sense, at other times that would be boring. It depends on where the most interesting focus for notes might be. I sure learned a lot from good liner notes.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Is that the right direction? Not sure anymore.
But I too like the score a lot, it’s a very nice score for a good movie.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Yes, the Intrada is a straight re-issue of the original soundtrack album with the original poster art.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

It’s a straight re-issue. (Couldn’t resist.)

That’s the cover I actually have, it’s not all that much different?

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Yes, it’s a re-issue. That’s not the cover of the CD I have, but it’s the cover of the Intrada reissue of the score (both CD and digital release).

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Whereas I, in an ideal world, perhaps I would never even listen to the same performance twice. 😀

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

There were and have been over the years several hefty boxes with ALL of Bach (Hänssler https://haensslerprofil.de/shop/werkausgaben-boxen/die-kompletten-werke , really good recordings, I do have some but by no means all or most of them) and all of Beethoven, and all of this or that.
“ALL” is of course debatable, as there may always be some odds and ends to include or not include, what is “ALL” anyway, all Bruckner Symphonies or all VERSIONS of ALL Bruckner Symphonies. (I have a set that is literally the latter:
).

I can’t say that these box set’s take the fun out of it, quite the contrary, they really allow to have a good overview dive into a composer. I don’t have a lot of “composer complete” boxes, as they used to be expensive (not anymore, you can get the Hänssler Bach edition now for a fraction of what it originally cost), and seemed a bit “overwhelming”, I preferred to spread out my funds for music over various different music and couldn’t just dump it all on ONE composer (and therefore not buying a lot of other music, like film music).

I do have some “specific” box sets, like all of Mozart’s symphonies, or Piano concertos, or all of piano sonatas.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

The Newman’s of course, that’s a given. Kyle Eastwood is also known Jazz Bassist and film composer (usually for his dad).

And there is Andrea Morricone, of course.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

MOUSE HUNT is mickey-mousey, that’s the idea. 🙂 It’s a charming score that relishes the zany slapstickness of the movie.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

It would be easy to now list a lot of favorites, but I choose two that I especially love:

JUDGE DREAD and MOUSE HUNT.

JUDGE DREAD is a varied, rich action score with muscular themes, suspense cues, and just an all out tour de force… Silvestri here steps into Goldsmith/Poledouris territory, and he keeps up with them. I was surprised how much I enjoy the score, given that I didn’t care all that much for the movie iteelf. It’s become one of my favorites.

And MOUSE HUNT is just a delight, like Peter and The Wolf as a film score. The theme is infectious, and the music is in such wonderful spirit, as if a modern composer scores a classic keystone cops/Laurel&Hardy movie, which is basically what it was.

Those two are definitely favorites of mine.

I’m right now listening to the new PLAY DIRTY score, which is off to a promising start.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I did an FSM threads with a similar subject once, “Completionist Collections”, where I asked which part of your collections do you consider “complete” strive to complete. FSM: Completionist Collections

As I said, I’m a bit lax in the checkbox department myself, so I don’t even know how “complete” some of the collection is. I do have a natural inclination to get some composers… like when there is a new interesting album by Leonard Rosenman or Bernard Herrmann or Alex North, I’ll probably get it, though I have not compared my collection with Discogs or Soundtrack Collector to see how complete it is. Same with Beethoven, I got a lot, certainly all the concertos and symphonies and string quartets and sonatas, but how would I know if it’s “all”? I’d have to compare my collection with a “Werkeverzeichnis”, but I haven’t done that.

The classical composers I do have complete (I listed up there) are “easy” to have complete, because either the ouevre had a clear, limited focus (Wagner, Mahler), or there were supposedly complete editions that I have (Boulez, Ligeti when you combine Sony and Teldec). I also do have all (studio) albums by Peter Gabriel or Talk Talk, but there are not too many, so it’s “easy” to be complete there and know it.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I may not even know if I have a composer “complete” because I’m lax in the checkbox department.
I’m pretty sure I have all (or close to all) compositions (by no means all recordings) by:
Gustav Mahler
György Ligeti
Pierre Boulez
Richard Wagner

I do have so many Jerry Goldsmith scores, I might as well strive for completion now…

As a side note:
I also have all Duck comics by Carl Barks, the one collection I started and finished with the completionist’s mindset. 🙂

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Not by “design”, but some things eventually become “complete”. By that I mean, I don’t systematically double check what is missing and what I would need to get in order for something to be “complete”. But some things may eventually be “completed” just out of natural interest. For example, when I started out, I became very interested in Jerry Goldsmith, and picked up LPs and later CDs when I found them and could afford them. Having a “complete” Jerry Goldsmith collection seemed way out of reach and not a realistic aim. But over the decades, I accumulated quite a bit. I have currently around 240 Jerry Goldsmith albums. When I look at that, that is most of his body of work, but probably not all it. I am actually not sure how “complete” it is… there are no major films missing, obviously, but experts might take a look at it and point to where it’s not “complete”. So some things just naturally “complete” themselves over time. Any new release of a previously unreleased Goldsmith score would probably end up in my collection… no need to stop now. 😀

I do have some classical composers and non film scores composer where I have a more or less “complete” collection… I do have all Peter Gabriel or Talk Talk albums, for example, or all of the works of Gustav Mahler and Pierre Boulez, but I’m not sure if I have film composers where I have everything (or close to everything).

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I don’t think I have ever paid any real “collector’s price” on a soundtrack CD… I remember back in the 1990s some crazy auctions on (the then comparatively new) eBay, where CDs sold for hundreds or in a few cases over a thousand dollars. Those were legendary discussions in rec.music.movies. I still have a printed film music “pricing” guide from around that time. I have only ever paid for what the CD would have cost new more or less anyway. The very few CDs I absolutely wanted to have and initially missed (like Ennio Morricone’s THE ISLAND) I traded for something else later on.
I would have paid $25 for FUTUREWORLD now, as it belongs to a special type of film score (it’s among film scores I initially taped of the TV, scores that got me interested in film music to begin with), so I’d love to have it.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I also didn’t buy anything from Kendall although there are a lot of things of interest. Other than you I have not everything I ever wanted because I have to be picky what I buy.

Oh, I have always been picky about what I buy too, that’s why I mean I have everything I ever longed for, not that I have actually everything. (Obviously not.) However, when there were releases I really wanted, I picked them up when they were released. So I bought stuff like STAGECOACH and THE TOWERING INFERNO and THE LORD OF THE RINGS complete sets when they were initially released, I didn’t have to pay “collector’s prices” later on.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Yeah, could be. I basically have all of the film music I ever wanted, and I even have basically all of the classical music I ever wanted.*1 That doesn’t mean that I don’t buy anything anymore, but just about all music I really longed to have when I was a teen years ago is now in my collection. So for the most part, I’m just an opportunistic buyer, and I still find opportunities.

*1: I said “just about all music”, and there are some titles — but very few — that remain elusive. There are Maurice Jarre’s 5 CARD STUD and William Lava’s THE GOOD GUYS AND THE BAD GUYS that remain elusive simply because they have not been released yet. Then there are a very few (it’s really very few) titles that I have not yet been able to get. Fred Karlin’s FUTUREWORLD, for example. It just showed up at Lukas Kendall’s sale for a reasonable price ($25, but it was sealed, so okay), but was snatched by someone else. Oh well, one day maybe. But for the most part, I have all I ever wanted, and all I am getting now is “goodies on top” or new discoveries.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

US CDs are not more expensive than EU CDs, it’s the shipping back and forth that costs, if you look at the actual prices, they are roughly the same.

I have some actual prices that are comparable:
I bought a Deutsche Grammophon release of Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique and Dutilleux in 1997 for 34,95DM, which is 17,90€. That was a normal price then for a new “premium” CD. I bought a Mahler recording via Amazon in 2020 for 8,99€:

That was a steal (which is why I bough it), but there were many “steals” like that. And it’s very comparable because they belong to the same “line” and label.
I have found that especially classical recordings have become remarkably cheap within the last ten years, with many labels and outlets obviously reducing prices or offering ridiculously stuffed boxed set that sell for a lot less than they would have 20 years ago.

That’s probably as a result of streaming. And that’s for new CDs.

The used market has obviously shrunk as well, but differently. The used market went berserk 10-15 years ago or so. That’s when streaming, Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, etc, all became mainstream and people were dumping their CD collections right and left. So that’s when you got an avalanche of used CDs cheap. Stores had to be careful to even take on more inventory, because everybody was selling their collections, far more than were buying it. It was a buyers market for sure, if you were in the market for used CDs. Now that market has incredibly shrunk since then, and far, far fewer CDs end up on the used market. Makes sense. CDs used to be mass products and mainstream, people bought maybe lots of CDs (including soundtracks), listened to it a few times, found they don’t care for it (anymore), and it was sold again. That’s happening a lot less these times. The few people who buy the CDs usually know what they buy and why and they keep them. Everyone can listen to anything streaming anyway, so far fewer people buy CDs to later sell them again. Fewer “new” CDs end up on the used market. (And far fewer CDs get produced to begin with.)

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

But beyond that, prices on CDs have risen far, far more than sheer inflation accounts for. As has shipping and other things.

It’s interesting that you say that, that is not my experience at all. Perhaps it’s different in Norway. The way I see it, CDs have been remarkably resilient to price increases, thereby becoming actually cheaper.

My first ever CD order from Amazon was in 2000, two Varèse Sarabande CDs, they cost €15,33 back then. (The McNeely recordings of MARNIE and CITIZEN KANE). I ordered them from Amazon at that time because a) I could not find them at my local store and b) the price was pretty good. When FSM first released CDs like Stagecoach and The Poseidon Adventure, they cost $19,95… that was in 1998! That was a normal price back then for a new premium release. The tomorrow released MOI QUI T’AIMAIS by Philippe Sarde from Music Box Records costs €16,80! The “regular” price for a new “major” CD in Europe and the US has been around $20 for a quarter of a century. Intrada now releases sometimes CDs for $21,99 something like that, but that’s a relatively small increase. There are STILL many new CD releases for around 20 (Euros or Dollars).

If you look at actual inflation rates in Europe and the US, considered for the last 25 years (from 2000 to 2025), a CD that cost 20€/$20 in 2000 should cost now about 32€ or even $37 in 2025 (the inflation rate over the last 25 years was higher for the Dollar than for the Euro). So in fact, CD prices have decreased by a considerable margin (by staying the same.)

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

The best bet for good deals on used or out of print film score CD is currently actually Lukas Kendall, who is selling off a lot of collections.

Most offline CD stores have vanished, so I guess that’s not much different from online CD stores. I used to live near what was once and for a long time the store with the by its own account “The largest record collection in the world”, Cologne’s Saturn Music Dome, and that store is gone. It had been a shadow of its former self for years, and now it’s a gamer venue.

In any case, I’d love to pay for lots of things the same prices today that I did 20 years ago. I would save a lot of money if I’d pay for electricity, gasoline, food, etc. the same prices I paid 20 years ago and no more. 🙂
In fact, I’d happily pay today’s prices for CDs if I could have the other things for the same prices they cost 20 years ago.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

COSÌ COME SEI was among my early “foundational” albums, I bought the LP some time in the 80s. I’m pretty sure it must have been among my first five or six Ennio Morricone albums. I’ve never actually seen the movie.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

By Michael Land, mighty pirate, I mean composer.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I remember that according to James Horner, Michael Convertino didn’t write any music at all, he realized his scores by performing them on a synthesizer and then turned it to orchestrators to write down the actual notes.

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Well, CDs niche within the niche for some time 😉 And not to speak of the prices… As long as thing are not streaming only and I at least can get a (lossless) download I am fine. But downloads are already a similar niche like CDs salewise…

Even more niche. Digital Downloads are the smallest niche when it comes to owning music.
And I can see why. To get the most out of it, you need more hardware set-up than either CD or “out of the box” streaming. You don’t get anything “physical” either, so digital downloads are super niche. I still like them, but I guess few people nowadays bother, certainly no casual listeners.

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