Nicolai P. Zwar
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The OST is indeed good. Haven’t heard the expansion, though.
I have both the original soundtrack release of RUDY and the expanded version, and would say the expansion here is not an essential upgrade. The OST presented the music very well.
I don’t check if a composer’s political, ethical, religious or philosophical believes align with my own. I mean, sometimes I know of course. Take Richard Wagner, by all means a “problematic” personality. Yet the problems are not manifest in his music, which is glorious.
The thin is we’re all flawed, all human, all fallible. You start purging art based on the sins of the artist, you end up with silence. There’d be no movies to watch and no film scores to be performed if everybody in cast and crew and orchestra needed to be sinless.
That doesn’t mean I would accept, support or tolerate everything, certainly not. If someone actively supports a cause that not only goes highly against my own convictions but even opposes them, and that even shows in the art, it’s less likely that person will find my support.
But Bernard Herrmann? He sure was a thorny, spiky personality, but I don’t remember anything he did that would make me appreciate his music less.Lalo Schifrin was among the first film composers I knew by name, simply because he had written a lot of main themes for TV back in the day when I grew up. So the end credits stated “theme music by Lalo Schifrin”, or something like that… for Petrocelli, Starsky & Hutch, Mission Impossible, probably some other stuff, when you watch some of that, episode after episode, even as a pre-teen child, you notice that the same name is on all of these shows with cool title themes.
I don’t remember any music that I enjoyed that I then some point later didn’t enjoy anymore. As I said, there was a lot of music that I discovered along the way or learned to like, but never the other way around, I never stopped liking something I once liked.
If I think back, some of the earliest pieces of music that I loved as a child, were Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, Mozart’s Magic Flute (parts of it), Prokofiev’s Peter and the Wolf, Smetanas The Moldau, Ravel’s Bolero, the Pink Panther theme, and TV themes such as PETROCELLI, THE WALTONS, THE MAGICIAN, THE STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO.
When I was in second grade, I used to watch the short lived TV series THE COWBOYS, which was based on the John Wayne movie with the same title, and I loved and whistled the main theme for that show. The show used John Williams’ theme from movie (of course, I did not know that back then), so this may have been my earliest encounter with the music of John Williams.
So I already enjoyed John Williams, Lalo Schifrin, and Jerry Goldsmith long before I ever knew their names, or knew one day I would collect their music on LPs and CDs. But I never stopped liking these earliest of favorites. 🙂I don’t think — as far as I can conceive — that my musical sensitivities have ever changed. They have expanded, no doubt, but I don’t think they have ever really changed. Heck, as I sometimes note, I attended two kindergartens, three elementary schools, and four high schools… so in a way, music is the one constant in my life. Even the earliest pieces of music I remember enjoying… stuff like the “Pink Panther Theme”… I enjoy to this day. 🙂
nd as you say, things like SOLARIS is something different altogether, and works fine as background music, but I sometimes find it rewarding to give this my full attention, too. With minimalist music even the smallest shifts, like a subtle chord change, become important, and these things can be fascinating to follow.
Oh, for sure. It’s very hypnotic score that can pull you “all in” too. Like Philip Glass, who opened a whole new world of music for me when I encountered KOYANISQAATSI (a movie I’ve seen with the Glass Ensemble performing the music live… one of the “movie concerts” that made sense).
I like the movie too. I’ve even read the novel SOLARIS twice (last time a couple of years ago on vacation). Martinez music is very introspective, meditative, I like it a lot.
Okay, that interval is used in other movies too (like the un-used TIMELINE), but the Klingon theme is very different in tone from the Wind and The Lion motif (which opens the score and is developed through).
I have listened to music most of my life, I became “serious” about it in my early teens and spent lots of money (well, lot of money for me) on first LPs and then CDs. I never “lost” my affection to a piece of music I enjoyed… STAR TREK-THE MOTION PICTURE and STAR WARS were the first film scores I ever got to listen to on soundtrack albums away from the film, and I never stopped enjoying them one bit.
I also enjoy textural scores, like Cliff Martinez SOLARIS (which I incidentally just listened to a couple of days ago), but it’s a completely different listen.
Different types of music demand a different “setting”. I remember conductor David Zinman saying in an interview, when his recording of Gorecky’s Third Symphony actually hit the charts, that it’s because of recording technology. No one would go to the concert hall to listen to a piece where nothing happens for 20 minutes, but at home, it unfolds its serenity. I tend to agree. For example, one of my all time favorite composers is Mahler, I have all of his symphonies and song cycles in various recordings and read several books about him and his music. Yet I don’t listen to Mahler all that often, because his music demand attention. You can’t listen to Mahler “on the side”, that’s annoying. His music unfolds like a movie where you can’t afford to miss a scene, or you’re out. SOLARIS, on the other hand, is like a warm “bath” of a score, you can just relax, perhaps talk a bit on the couch or browse the net or in a magazine. It doesn’t demand attention, it’s setting a mood. There’s of course lots of music in between.Also, when I started out listening to music, I had certain composer as a starting point, like Wagner, Beethoven on the classical, and Williams, Goldsmith on the film music side. Some composers did not interest me that much right away, like Mozart or Bach or Vivaldi (I was in my early 30s when I first heard “The Four Seasons”, which was kinda a funny moment). Composers I liked right away were Stravinsky and even Schönberg, whereas it took me a long time to even pay attention to British composers such as Ralph Vaughan-Williams… today, I love his music a lot. So over time I grew and learned “more” music, but I never stoppend liking any piece of music, because not matter what, I always remember why I liked it in the first place.
I like the Klingon music, but I don’t find it has even similarity to anything in THE WIND AND THE LION?
I love all the Goldsmith STAR TREK scores, including FIRST CONTACT, which would be my least favorite of the bunch though. 🙂
My favorite STAR TREK score is clearly the motion picture, I don’t have a problem with the theme at all, but it’s the V’ger/Cloud music that sets it apart as a favorite. 2nd would probably be STAR TREK V – THE FINAL FRONTIER, which opened up a whole palette of new motifs into the Star Trek music that would be used, then INSURRECTION (which would be my second favorite Star Trek movie), then NEMESIS, and then FIRST CONTACT.My interest in classical music and film music also is intertwined. I think that SUPERMAN is both the better film and the richer score than SUPERGIRL (though I like both scores), and Quartermain is no match for Indy, but STAR TREK – THE MOTION PICTURE is, for me, perhaps the greatest film score ever written. Especially for the V’ger music, that’s among the music that made me become interested in film music. Though STAR WARS is up there too. STAR WARS is great music as well, and certainly also an initiating score for me.
Oh wait, I think, Chinatown has a dedicated album arrangement of the main theme. And Pappillon, too. So, maybe I am wrong about this point.
There were quite a few albums where Goldsmith did specific album arrangements or made recordings just for the album. Apart from the ones mentioned stuff like HOUR OF THE GUN, CAPRICORN ONE, FIERCE CREATURES, UNDER FIRE, The FLYNN movies, and many more.
I agree with you that Williams is more “traditional”, while Goldsmith is more experimental (which is why I tend to prefer Goldsmith over Williams, though I both are obviously great). I don’t have any problem with all the later electronics in his music precisely because these were experiments and often unlike anything I have heard. LINK for example… an orchestra with Simmons drum performing aggressive circus music, RAMBO 2 with aggressive rattle snake like electronics, and so on. These were sounds I haven’t heard before, so that was interesting.
I also don’t think Williams is a better melodist than Goldsmith, but that is of course totally subjective. But Goldsmith wrote some of my all time favorite movie melodies (FIRST BLOOD, A PATCH OF BLUE, RIO CONCHOS, ILYA’S THEME, and more), and tends to have more varied and unusual instrumentation. So if pressed, I’d pick Goldsmith over Williams, but I’m sure most people would chose otherwise. (Then again, I’d pick Boulez over Shostakovich too, and I’m sure most people would chose otherwise.)There is no question that Williams is more in the public mind than Jerry Goldsmith, and that is because — apart from the undeniable quality of his music — the enormous amount of hyper-successful films — and perhaps even more importantly, film franchises — his name is attached to. JAWS, STAR WARS, INDIANA JONES, SUPERMAN, JURASSIC PART, HARRY POTTER… just a few examples… these are ALL still very much present in the public consciousness. And it’s hard to think of these movies without having Williams splendid film scores in the ear. Movies like PATTON, PAPILLON, CHINATOWN, L.A. CONFIDENTIAL are easily as good and have film scores just as good, but they are not “main stream franchise” event movies.
I agree. Needs to be a hook. Of course, there are some very well known movie themes, often songs, that have become famous on their own, often because they became popular songs. That includes songs like Giorgio Moroder’s “Take My Breath Away” or, to go back further, something like “Unchained Melody” by Alex North, which has become an iconic melody even though hardly anyone has ever seen the movie it was written for.
Henry Mancini’s “Baby Elephant Walk” is another such iconic film theme that has become famous “on its own”. Likewise “Moon River”, which has become such a famous song (whose original sung version by Audrey Hepburn, for whom the song was specifically written, ironically wasn’t released until Intrada’s BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY’S release).And Goldsmith’s music for PLANET OF THE APES, while not a “hummable” famous movie theme, has been parodied a number of times, including in at least two Simpsons episodes, so it did have some cultural impact.
But for obvious reasons, movie themes that feature easily recognizable, catchy melodies, like the Indiana Jones March or The Magnificnent Seven, are much more likely to become pop-cultural “hits” outside of their movies.
For Windows at least, there are a few alternatives, like Foobar2000 and especially MusicBee, which feels like an iTunes on steroids, as it can do pretty much everything iTunes can and then some. Plus it handles both FLAC and ALAC files. I very much like and also use MusicBee and it does some things I enjoy that iTunes can’t do, most importantly multiple genres.
Originally, I ripped with iTunes, but when I checked my ripped collection with AccurateRip a few years later, I found that several CDs I had ripped had considerable errors that iTunes didn’t report. EAC is much better at these corrections, if EAC detects an error while ripping, it reads the sectors again until it either can read them or it flags them in a report; as far as I know that’s true for XLD as well.
My HP laptop is not hooked up to my home stereo though (or any speakers really, just the built in speakers), so I never use these programs to listen to music, just to tag and curate my music collection.I’m on Windows and for legacy reasons also use ALAC. I started back in 2013 to convert some of my CDs for my car and phone, and realized quickly that to get the most of it, I’d have to streamline tagging and I only ever wanted to do this once. So I decided on lossless format ALAC, because I started with iTunes. That way, I’d have 1:1 bit-perfect copies of the music. I still use iTunes to “curate” the music.
When I buy digital downloads (or rip CDs, now mostly with EAC, since I have noticed that iTunes is a terribly unreliable ripper) I convert them to ALAC as well.
A couple of years ago, I considered converting my collection to FLAC, since that’s more native to Windows and Android, but I found since all my devices, and my home stereo play ALAC anyway, so I couldn’t think of any practical advantages to switch formats, so I still use ALAC. As you said, for all intents and purposes, the two formats are basically just the same anyway, just one is more Apple, one is more Windows/Linux. 🙂Years ago, we did some sound quality comparison with MP3 and CD sound (via FLAC), and I remember the differences were clearly audible, though not immediately obvious and not the same for all music styles. It was most noticeable in music that used few acoustic instruments, so stuff like very natural sounding chamber music, piano recitals, some jazz recordings (especially with cymbals). The difference became less noticeable with orchestral and pop music, perhaps because when there are fewer instruments, it allows to focus on certain sounds. I’ve never done that with high-res vs. CD sound, and I doubt I personally would hear the difference (if the mastering is identical, which it sometimes isn’t).
The majority of my music is from my own ripped CDs anyway, and there are digital downloads, of those quite a few are higher resolution, so I have music from 16bit/44,1kHz up to 24bit/192kHz. If I get to pay €8 for a high-res release from Qobuz (often with booklet), I choose that over paying €16 for the CD.The thing with high-res is, as a subscriber you get great deals on high-res releases (which of course include CD and MP3 quality) on Qobuz, but if a release is not high-res, you have to wait for a sale or pay without a discount. So that makes higher resolution downloads quite often the cheapest option for me.
Qobuz caters more to the classical and jazz people has sometimes great sales, and subscribers get lots of discounts on high-res albums, like this 19 CD set in high-resolution from Deutsche Gramophon for €10,99 (https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/shostakovich-symphonies-concertos-lady-macbeth-nelsons-13726, https://www.qobuz.com/de-de/album/shostakovich-symphonies-concertos-lady-macbeth-of-mtsensk-district-andris-nelsons-baiba-skride-boston-symphony-orchestra-yo-yo-ma-yuja-wang/zwc6i9kxp8iaa). I bought that last year, and the recordings (what I have listened to so far, which is just a few symphonies) are excellent. And you find lots of such great deals at Qobuz, which is why it is the streaming service I subscribe to.
However, the Cacavas AIRPORT 1975 album is not on sale, and costs as much as a full price new CD would cost, which is why so far I have not picked it up.
Yeah, Goldsmith’s PLANET OF THE APES has themes, and a very pronounced theme that is elaborated on in many tracks, but it’s not a theme you’ll find people “humming”.
I also have much more music I can listen to the rest of my life. In earlier days scores often were on heavy rotation but nowadays hardly. I even have stuff laying around I bought but not have listened to…
Yes, there was a turning point at some time. When I first started listening to music, obviously I knew every LP and every CD inside out… nowadays, I always have a considerable portion in my collection that is still “undiscovered country”, so I have access to new music even if I could never go into a store or stream anything ever again. I often picked up several CDs and once, but only listened to one or two of them, because I sometimes bought CDs that were a good deal, but weren’t exactly in the mood for it at that time. And in recent years, there were quite a few classical music boxed set released, like the recent DG Shostakovich set (which I bought as a download) or the Boulez boxed set. I mean, I really like Boulez, but he’s all spice, so I don’t feel like listening to all 13 CDs in a row… will take me at least a year or two or three to have listened to all of that.
John Cacavas AIRPORT 1975
It’s also available as download gladly. I think I have an old LP rip of it, should listen to it again (see above ;-)).
Yes, I know it’s available as download. I have a Qobuz subscription, so I can listen to it any time: https://www.qobuz.com/nl-nl/album/airport-1975-john-cacavas/0060253775702
I would also consider buying a download, but it seems rather expensive at full price (for what it is; the 50 year old soundtrack in 16bit/44,1kHz without booklet); I was somewhat hoping LLL would release it after they released AIRPORT 1977 from the same composer.
When I look through my music collection, it is quite “finished”. Of course, not in the sense of “literally” being ever complete… I mean, music will be something that will stick around with me until I kick the bucket, so there will always be a new album here and there added. Not necessarily on CD, I’m just as happy to go for digital downloads. I just got Danny Elfman’s DRACULA, so obviously, this is still a “going on thing”.
But by and large, it is “complete”. It is complete in the sense that there is very, very little I ever wanted that it is missing.
Of the film scores that are released but that are missing in my collection which I will want to get one day, there’s John Cacavas AIRPORT 1975 and Fred Karlin’s FUTUREWORLD… but one day they’ll be there.Funny side note: a film score I associate with sweltering hot heat is one most people probably would if at all associate with the opposite.
Ennio Morricone’s music for THE THING.
I received (and first listened to) the soundtrack on a sweltering hot day, it was in my early days of film score collecting, so I played it quite a few times during hot summer days. (I also saw the movie on a hot summer day when I first watched it in the theater.)
So even though the movie itself plays in the Antarctic in below freezing temperatures, the music itself still evokes those summer days.It’s totally subjective, and of course how one responds to music, but I actually do have some scores, both film and classical, that are “seasonal”, in the sense that I associate them more with certain types of weather or seasons. I agree that Elliot Goldenthal’s HEAT radiates more the warm, urban nightpulse of L.A., not “sweltering heat”.
Scores that are definitely “hot summer” scores for me are:
George Delerue: L’été meurtrier (Which is called “One Deadly Summer” in English)
Ennio Morricone: Lolita (The music is just sweltering hot, very much summer)
Jerry Goldsmith: Chinatown (It just conjures up hot, dry L.A.)
Maurice Jarre: Lawrence of Arabia (D’oh!)There are some classical compositions that have a summer flair in my mind too.
Felix Mendelssohn: A Midsummer Night’s Dream (perhaps obvious, but it’s so)
Joaquin Rodrigo: Concierto de AranjuezAnd, for some reason:
Johannes Brahms: Symphony No. 4 (that’s probably just me personally)Horner’s STAR TREK II score is on CD a more exciting, interesting score than STAR TREK III if you only have the original album of III.
My view of III changed when I got the expanded edition. Whereas STAR TREK II was a great album in any incarnation, (I think it’s even better expanded, but it’s just the same a bit fleshed out), the OST of III shortchanged the score. In the expanded edition, it becomes a worthy counterpart. I like them about the same, perhaps even with a slight edge for STAR TREK III.In 3 days, it will be 10 years since James Horner died.
Would be great if we used this time to reminisce a bit.
OK, I indulge you.
How did you discover Horner?
It was a two punch in the early 1980s. I saw WOLFEN (on VHS with a few friends) and was very impressed with the music by this for me “new” name. A friend of mine had just bought the LP for STAR TREK II (a movie I’d soon see in the theater), which was also composed by this “James Horner” guy. I thought both scores were very good. The music was exciting, fresh… Horner had a clear, distinct voice.
So I had to get STAR TREK II, and I also got soon after BRAINSTORM and GORKY PARK (on LP.) I looked for WOLFEN, but could not find it (that was before the Internet could have told me that no such soundtrack release existed then).What’s your general take on his work?
I very much like his work. Horner is an interesting case; no other film composer I know has been accused more of recycling his own material or “lifting” from others, yet, and that is the decisive factor for me, his music always sounds like Horner. He incorporates elements and makes them his own. Famous example: WILLOW. Did he “lift” or “steal” from Schumann’s Symphony No. 3? I don’t know, fact is, there is definitely a melodic similarity. However, I didn’t even notice that before the Internet years ago pointed it out. Despite the fact that I knew of course Schumann’s symphony. Because the way he used the material, it sounds like Horner, not like Schumann. I have no trouble with composers recycling material, melodies or whatever, from others or themselves. Classical composers do this all the time. Does the opening of ALIENS sound like Khachaturian Adagio from Gayaneh was incorporated? Sure, but does ALIENS sound like Gayaneh? No, not at all. And even the way Horner used the Adagio puts quite a spin on it… the percussion and echoplex makes it sound dark and threatening.
How do you rank him among your favourite composers?
I’m not big on “ranking”… he is definitely a favorite composer of mine. When he started out, I was very excited about his music. In later years, he became more mellow and “romantic”, I think I tend to prefer some of his more aggressive, or experimental stuff, though I certainly admit that I love the epic sweep he brought to LEGENDS OF THE FALL and BRAVEHEART… two more favorites of mine. ALIENS is for me one of my favorite Horner scores, it’s a bit like a musical nightmare.
Do you remember where you were when you got the news about his death?
Yes, I remember very well where I was and what I did. I was in my car on my way to work. I just turned on the news on the radio when they said something about a plane crash and that James Horner may have been in that plane. It was really like in the movies…. you turn on the radio and it immediately starts spouting the important news you are interested in. I didn’t catch the beginning of the news, so I thought: “What? Plane crash? James Horner?” At first I thought he may have been a passenger in a commercial flight. Then over the day I realized the sad news that James Horner had died in a plane crash. Was a sad day, I always enjoyed his music.
And – of course – more top 5 lists are welcome.
Did one. Could do another one. 🙂
“What does a website cost?” is the same question as “What does a car cost?”. You can pick up some used beat up old pickup truck for $800.-, or buy a super exclusive Bentley limited edition for $2,000,000.-
I think indeed the most complex and costly element here is likely the transfer of the old forum content and port it over to the new forum. Not even sure if they’ll be able properly align the (most likely new logins and) new accounts with the old postings.
